Le 09/12/2018 à 19:03, Richard Eisenberg a écrit :
What this email seems to suggest to me is that our guidelines assume
good faith, and yet some participants act in bad faith. I agree this
is not well accounted-for in the guidelines.
...
I don't really think that Philippa Cowderoy's warning
/... guidelines like this risk doing even more damage than not having
any. Not only do they lack the means to handle incidents that have
already occurred, they actively discourage the community from finding
those means.
/
points to a true danger. Teaching a "correct" behaviour is anyway a
never-ending process.
Although I have seen a good deal of nastiness on the Web, practically
never related to Haskell. There have been some doctrinal, not very
serious disputes, occasionally an X or Y had too much adrenaline, but
the true bad faith is something at most marginal. Perhaps the reason is
-- I cite Simon: /The Haskell community is such a rich collection of
*intelligent*, passionate, and committed people/.
The intelligence is crucial here. It is not democratically distributed
[[my goodness, am I already insulting people?!]], so we will always need
Constitutions, Catechisms, sportmanship rules, etc., even without the
accompanying "criminal codes". The text of Simon is NOT a proposal to
introduce Haskell Inquisition.
In the context of the Haskell community, spending time on prevention &
punishment of potential bad faith seems to me a bit horrible.
Ben Lippmeier says
/The way I see it, guidelines for Respectful Communication are
statements of the desired end goal, but they don’t provide much
insight as to the root causes of the problems, or how to address them.
At the risk of trivialising the issue, one could reduce many such
statements to “Can everyone please stop shouting and be nice to each
other.”/
It is true that most etiquette rules, as vestimentary codes, etc. are
somehow superficial, but the "root causes of the problem" may be
terribly complicated. It is possible to degenerate a communication
system without shouting or being manifestly brutal/impolite, and here
and there the wish to be '/effective/' wins over the diplomacy.
Some of my students stopped asking questions on the Stack Overflow
forum because of that, and there are many other places avoided by
newbies, by fragile people... Sending people away because of
(apparently; often not so) duplicate questions, "downvoting", forming
casts of power-enabled "gurus", who behave disrespectfully, since they
are gurus, issuing statements such as: "read /some/ tutorial, and /then/
come back", etc., all this exists, may trigger angry answers, but does
not implies bad faith (although too often signals somehow weak knowledge
of psychology).
Let's be optimistic. I think that it would do a favour for the [larger]
community, if Simon agreed to send the guidelines to haskell-cafe (and
perhaps to some forum outside Haskell as well), I knew many people (my
former students for example), who read only the -café list...
Live long and prosper. 🖖
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
[France.]
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