Return to our discussion regarding words that are Greek/Latin in origin. This time about פרוזה = Prozah: So we agreed that it will be Prozah and not Perozah. Now what about cases such as: בפרוזה = Bi-prozah or Ba-prozah: according to Even Shoshan (2003 edition), vol. 5, page 1528 (see https://goo.gl/photos/9pHnfcYmiwpUsSgh9) it will be Bi-prozah and not Bi-frozah. Are we all on the same understanding?
I just cataloged the last book by Nitza Ben-Dov - see: https://library.osu.edu/projects/hebrew-lexicon/01948002.php OCLC # 968894063 Yossi Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger E-Mail: galro...@osu.edu or jgal...@gmail.com Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918 Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote: > Thank you, Heidi J. > > > > Let me know, please, when last year’s minutes and the agenda for this year > are ready for posting on the wiki. > > > > Best wishes, Jasmin > > > > *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists. > osu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Heidi G Lerner > *Sent:* Monday, May 02, 2016 12:47 PM > > *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel > *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] words starting with דרמ- > > > > I will add this issue to the agenda for the AJL RAS Cataloging meeting in > June for a general group discussion. > > > > After sharing our colleagues thoughts, the committee will revisit the > issue and make a new decision. If we change the current guidelines, the > changes will be reflected in the the upcoming update to RDA Hebraica > cataloging (due Summer 2016). > > > > Heidi G. Lerner > > Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica > > Metadata Dept. > > Stanford University Libraries > > Stanford, CA 94305-6004 > > ph: 650-725-9953 <(650)%20725-9953> > > fax: 650-725-1120 <(650)%20725-1120> > > e-mail: ler...@stanford.edu > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford....@lists.osu.edu> on > behalf of Yossi Galron <jgal...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday, May 2, 2016 9:25 AM > *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel > *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] words starting with דרמ- > > > > Although I supported keeping the status quo on Pesefas/Psefas - I agree > now that we need to change our policy and remove the Alcalay rule for those > words that are Greek/Latin in origin. > > The reason I voted to keep the status quo for Pesefas/Psefas was the much > work it would bring on us in cleaning up the database. But it looks that we > are coming back to the same question again and again and it's time to solve > it. > > Let's change all Dermah to Dramah and Pesikhologyah to Psikhologyah - > ve-yavo al Tsiyon go'el. > > > > Yossi > > > > > > > Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger > E-Mail: galro...@osu.edu or jgal...@gmail.com > Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918 <(614)%20292-1918> > Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit > > > > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu> > wrote: > > Yes, the Cataloging Committee did recently review psefas/pesefas, but IIRC > the decision was to maintain the status quo. I don’t recall what factors > went into making that decision. > > > > As for following Alcalay’s vocalization, I’m not sure how that’s helpful > since he can be so inconsistent. Take the example of [psych], for which he > has the following entries: > > > > Psikhah (for Psyche, myth.) > > Psikhoanaliṭi > > Psikhoanaliṭiḳai > > Psikho’analisah (-zah) > > Psikhogeni > > Psikhozah > > Psikhografah > > Psikhografyah > > Psikhoṭekhni > > Psikhonṭekhniḳah > > Psikholog > > Psikhologi > > > > BUT, the first exception with a sheva > > > > Pesikhologyah, followed by a bunch of different types of psychology, NONE > of one which have a sheva under the peh: > > Psikhologyah geneṭit/hevdelit/ḥinukhit/le-ta’aśiyah/mashṿah/ and on, > and on. > > > > THEN, another exception with a sheva > > > > Pesikhologizatsyah, followed by more entries with NO sheva: > > Psikhologism > > Psikhosomaṭi > > Psikhofisi > > Psikhofisikah > > Psikhopat > > Psikhopatologi > > Psikhopatologyah > > > > THEN, a final exception with a sheva > > > > Pesikhopati, followed by more entries with NO sheva: > > Psikhopatyah > > Psikhi > > Psikhi’aṭor > > Psikhi’aṭri, and the last, > > Psikhi’aṭriyah > > > > I cannot find any logic behind which words are vocalized and which are > not, but it contradicts Heidi’s principle below that words based on a word > with a sheva would also have a sheva. > > > > Nevertheless, Alcalay is consistent with his entries for [dram], which > makes my question moot, if not food for thought… > > Deramah > > Deramaṭurg > > Dermaṭurgiyah > > Deramaṭizatsyah > > Deramati > > Deramatiyut > > > > (I didn’t see them till now, which is what prompted the original email. > Apologies, Jasmin) > > > > > > *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists. > osu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Joan Biella > *Sent:* Friday, April 29, 2016 7:11 PM > *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel > *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] words starting with דרמ- > > > > The rule being followed here is the one that says Alcalay's vocalization > determines the romanization of words with ambiguous initial shevas. If his > dictionary prints the sheva, we romanize it as "e." This rule was laid > down for the benefit of catalogers who don't have access to spoken Hebrew > sources, and ensures a standard romanization for everyone. > > Perhaps it is time to reconsider this rule, as some catalogers in some > circumstances certainly find it annoying. The recent exchange about > psefas/pesefas dealt with the same issue. Should this be discussed > seriously by the cataloging committee? > > Joan > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:34 AM, Neil Manel Frau-Cortes <nf...@umd.edu> > wrote: > > No offense, but have you ever tried to explain the crazy "deramah" > exception to somebody who is not a Hebrew cataloger? > > > > Whoever has the power could just have eliminated the exception instead of > adding to it. > > > > All linguistic systems tend to regularization > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularization_(linguistics)>. In any > codification system, the more exceptions you add to rules, the less > effective the code is. > > > > שבת שלום ומעדים לשמחה > > > > Neil > > > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Heidi G Lerner <ler...@stanford.edu> > wrote: > > I would certainly think so. I can't think why not. > > > > The wod, while not of themselves completely foreign words: they are based > on one. > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > Best, Heidi > > > > Heidi G. Lerner > > Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica > > Metadata Dept. > > Stanford University Libraries > > Stanford, CA 94305-6004 > > ph: 650-725-9953 > > fax: 650-725-1120 > > e-mail: ler...@stanford.edu > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Shinohara, Jasmin <jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu> > *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 2:13 PM > *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel > *Cc:* Heidi G Lerner > *Subject:* words starting with דרמ- > > > > HCM2 clearly states דרמה as exception to vocalization of foreign loan > words (“first sheṿa in a foreign loan word with an initial consonantal > cluster is generally treated as a sheṿa naḥ…” cf. p. 19). Do other words > starting with that “root” follow that same exception, e.g. דרמטורגיה, > דרמטי, דרמטיזציה, etc.? > > Thank, Jasmin > > > > --- > > Jasmin Shinohara > > Hebraica Cataloging Librarian > > University of Pennsylvania > > Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center > > 3420 Walnut Street > > Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206 > > T. 215-746-6397 > > F. 215-573-9610 > > jsh...@upenn.edu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > > > > > > -- > > *Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D.* > > Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger > > McKeldin Library > > University of Maryland > College Park, MD 20742 > Phone (301) 405-9337 > > nf...@umd.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > > > > _______________________________________________ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > >
_______________________________________________ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
