Fabric Hexayurt hinges sounds great--I'm ready to take the plunge--I envision bandaging my yurt together!
If dust and rain proof, I'd feel solid using glue and fabric to hinge my roof-halfs and wall-halfs. Zippers would be attractive for the halfs going together...but for the cost and the risk of a leaky yurt, I'd be happy to use the same amount of tape for the tape ring, roof-and-wall connections. Please report back! There was a guy on you tube w a zipper yurt who used glue of some sort to connect the zippers to the panels. Perhaps a place for another material comparison? Ps: sf Hexayurt happy hour coming soon! On Friday, March 29, 2013, wrote: > Today's Topic Summary > > Group: http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/topics > > - An idea for a more permanent tape solution (spray adhesive and > nylon)<#13db6bb440a026b4_group_thread_0>[10 Updates] > - What do we do about the pyramids? <#13db6bb440a026b4_group_thread_1>[1 > Update] > - Hexayurt Builders in Reno or Bay > Area?<#13db6bb440a026b4_group_thread_2>[1 Update] > > An idea for a more permanent tape solution (spray adhesive and > nylon)<http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/t/a4836a611aa47a42> > > Jacob Rodriguez <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 01:17PM -0700 > > So, I'm going to be building a quarter sized nearodesic polyhedron > ("quad") > dome (1 rmax sheet = 8 triangles) for BRC this year. > > My foamcore and masking tape prototypes (1:12 and 1:5 scale) have been > going well. I'm learning how to do the tape hinges, and how to miter > the > edges with a razor and angled metal guide. I'm thinking that the full > size > version will be relatively easy to prepare and construct. My end > result is > a 6' high, 12' diameter dome that folds down into a 4' x 4' x 15" high > box. > Minimal tape is required as all but one edge of each quad is hinged > with > fabric and adhesive. Only the top square, and 4 "corners" need to be > fully > taped together. > > I'm seeing lots of people commenting on how the BFT (bi-filament tape) > is > not really UV resistant, so it flakes off eventually. Also, that it's > barely a semi-permanent solution, even if you do tape hinges instead > of > one-time assembly. I've considered many different types of ways to > join the > triangles that would last more than one or two times: > > - zippers (needed like 400 of them, really really expensive) > - button snaps and straps (would glue on the snaps to the boards, then > use > a strap to snap them together; this is not weather proof at all) > - velcro (again, pretty expensive if you use the really good velcro, > which > is likely the only way to guarantee structural integrity and > 'weatherproof-ness') > - magnets (even using strong ones (N45), embedding them in the edges > of the > triangles, they could jsut fall out, and still not weather proof. also > $$$) > > ..and a couple of other ideas. I've learned that putting metal > hooks/rods/bolts (binder clips) through the boards will just rip > through it > with a strong enough tug. They could end up just getting loose and > boring > out big holes. Using plus-shaped ("+") hooks/rods to fasten some sort > of > fabric over the joints are slightly better because they resist being > pulled > like a wire cutter through the board, but you would have holes in the > board > and water could get in. Also, excessive force would also just make the > holes looser and ruin the boards eventually. But the idea of using > some > sort of fabric seems to hold merit. > > My main goal is to build something that can easily be packed away, and > assembled multiple time. Realizing that the main principles of a good > BM > structure are to seal out rain, dust and light, I think I've come up > with a > possible solution, but I'm curious why I can't find anyone who has > tried it. > * I'm hoping to get some cautionary tales or some encouragement on > using > sport nylon (as opposed to ripstop), and some Super 77 or 80 or 90 > spray > adhesive, instead of the traditional tape.* > > The cost might be a little more expensive up front (depending on some > factors), but I'm thinking that the nylon will last much longer than > just > about any tape and is probably just as strong (if not stronger) than > BFT. > From what I've read, a lot of people end up using some 77 spray anyway > because of the lubricating residue on the boards. I'm curious if it's > more > UV resistant (or at least the adhesive would be) and therefore survive > the > endless sun bathing better. Also, the concept of cutting fabric into > strips > and using spray adhesive as a backing gives the user many more options > when > it comes to materials (stronger fabric and/or stronger glue), rather > than > just limiting to such a rare find as 6" BFT. Though I'm sure that > sport > nylon "tape" is even more rare. You can also make the strips as wide > as you > want, so you are not limited there either. > > I've built a prototype of a hinged triangle using foamcore, sport > nylon and > Super 77, which seems very, very strong. Stronger than masking tape > anyway. > I'm thinking that while it's not waterproof out of the box, I could > always > spray with some scotchguard, or tape over everything with the foil > tape. > Foil tape would also help any concerns on fire-hazard as the adhesive > is > quite flammable. I put a hairdrier on it for about 10 mins on high, to > see > if excessive heat made the glue loosen, but it did quite well. I'm > thinking > the higher temp ratings of 80 or 90 adhesive will help in that area. > Maybe > instead of foil tape. I can spray with some sort of coating that will > protect against fire and water at the same time. > > For cost comparison, my project would be using about 6 rolls of 60yd > tape. > That's about $20 a roll. Plus about 4 rolls of foil tape (for outside > only) > at another $20 a roll. I'm thinking that a can of adhesive will last > quite > a long time, so I may only need about 3 cans at about $20 a pop. The > fabric > is not that expensive (maybe 5 dollars a yard), so I think all in all, > I > might come out saving a little cash (if any at all), but ending up > with a > much more permanent/reusable solution. > > Anyway, what do you all think? I'm going to be purchasing a piece of > polyIso to test. I'm going to make a single "quad" using this nylon > and > adhesive, then leaving it up on my roof for a week or two to see how > it > handles the weather. It's Santa Monica CA weather so not quite the > same, > but should give a good indication as to whether it will survive at all. > > Thanks for reading! > > > > > hal muskat <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 02:11PM -0700 > > Looks great Jacob. Want to see this on playa. > > Note, zippers no good in dust! Dust not great for magnets. Cheap > velcro fails in dust. > > Where are you located? > > Have fun, peace, Phoenix > > > On Mar 28, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Jacob Rodriguez wrote: > > > > > > Vladimir Khodel <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 01:52PM -0700 > > Yeap, turns out contact cement (not water based version, do work > outside > and don't smoke anything while gluing :)) and cordura work great for > hinges. Although beefy brass zippers can be found on clearance when > buying > in bulk, I think more cordura flaps and some velcro to keep things from > unfolding would be sufficient: > > http://www.appropedia.org/BFD_mod > > Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way :) > > Vladimir > > > > > > > Jacob Rodriguez <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 06:30PM -0700 > > Thanks! Forgot about zipper lubrication vs. a dusty environment. > Zippers > were too expensive though. I would need like 600 feet of zippers in 2, > 4 > and 4.5 foot lengths. Not very cheap or useful for this application, > apparently. > > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:11:05 PM UTC-7, )(hoenix wrote: > > > > > Jacob Rodriguez <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 06:38PM -0700 > > Ohh, cordura and contact cement. Perfect example of using adhesives > and > fabric as a reasonable means of joining the 'angles vs traditional > filament > tape. > > My grandfather also recommended contact cement, as it's waterproof. > Using a > brush applicator would also make application a little more accurate. > > Have you tested this combination in an outdoor (windy and/or wet) > environment? > > > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:52:26 PM UTC-7, Vladimir Khodel wrote: > > > > > Jacob Rodriguez <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 06:40PM -0700 > > Ohh, cordura and contact cement. Perfect example of using adhesives > and > fabric as a reasonable means of joining the 'angles vs traditional > filament > tape. > > My grandfather also recommended contact cement, as it's waterproof. > Using a > brush applicator would also make application a little more accurate. > > Have you tested this combination in an outdoor (windy and/or wet) > environment? > > > > > Vladimir Khodel <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 06:41PM -0700 > > Brass #10 zippers did just fine last year. The idea is to minimize > number > of edges you want to zip and maximize number of folded ones, which > maybe > get tricky (see my foldout diagram for the stretch hexayurt case - this > folding pattern does pack back into a flat stack of 7 foam sheets). > > Good thing about velcro is that you don't have to run it continuously, > one > 2" square per foot of the edge may actually be fine if you fold cordura > over the edge of your foam first. > > In general pictures would help this discussion a great deal. :) > > Vladimir > > > > > > > > "Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)" > <[email protected]<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');> > > Mar 29 01:44AM > > Hm. (thinks) > > Well, first up, have a roll of tape with you in case of problems. > Hexayurt > tape, correctly applied, will hold damn near anything together. > > Second, remember the great breakthrough of the Wright Brothers wasn't > inventing the aeroplane. Their real breakthrough was inventing the wind > tunnel: after that, inventing the aeroplane was a pretty easy job, a > ton of > small models and no real safety problems! > > Test the hell out of it with small portions. Boards are tough to get > things > to stick to some times. Glue is unpredictable in the heat (hairdryer?) > Loads applied over time can cause glue to creep, like duct tape does. > Are > the adhesives stable? > > I really think something like this can work, but I think it's going to > require methodical testing on samples to get something sorted. > > I've always wondered about lacing. Eyelets every three inches, and then > just lash the hexayurt together. > > Finally, watch for the metal skin just tearing right off. Happens with > tape > if the forces is at the wrong angle, for example. That's a big reason > for > pre-taping the panels, so that the fastening-tape is sticking to tape, > rather than to the much more delicate metal surface. > > Good luck, and please document everything! > > Vinay > > > > > Vladimir Khodel <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 07:02PM -0700 > > BM 2012 weather was pretty mild, but we did have some 90"F weather, one > dust storm and a bit of rain... > > Also my design features horizontal bands of tensioned 2" straps which > really solidifies the structure to a point where I can single-handedly > lift > it up by the door :) > > 2" foam does very nicely under compression... > > Cheers, > > Vladimir > > > > > > > Chad Cole <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 08:23PM -0600 > > I saw this a few weeks ago and wondered how it would work for > waterproofing seams: http://www.ultraeverdrystore.com/ > > Just a thought. > > > > > What do we do about the > pyramids?<http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/t/c353e85d83a20cf9> > > "Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)" > <[email protected]<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');> > > Mar 29 01:47AM > > These things: > > > > https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hexayurt+pyramid&hl=en&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=m_9SUZ-GE8HaOs-0gfAI&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1092&bih=545 > > I've always been, admittedly irrationally, anti-pyramid. > > Pros for bringing them into the fold: > > 1) 4 boards gives 64 square feet vs. 48 square feet for the H4, 6' > hexayurt > and so on. > -- a lot of that space is very, very low (below 24") but that may be > useful > for storing clutter. > -- at the center, you can stand up in it. > > 2) ridiculously easy to build and transport > > Cons > > A) square > B) square > C) square > > Any thoughts on this? Do we simply add it as another hexayurt variant > (full > credit to the inventor of course) or are there reasons for keeping the > square over there? > > V> > > PS: http://hexayurt.com has been updated, some lovely new pictures from > Robin & Kevin, and other links added. Thanks for letting us use those > images Robin! > > -- > Vinay Gupta > Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest > > http://bit.ly/gupta_arc <http://bit.ly/gupta_arc%20>- the Gupta State > Failure Management Archive > http://bit.ly/gupta_ark - or see it directly on Archive.org > > http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering > http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision > > "In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an > invincible summer" - Albert Camus > > Twitter/Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt > UK Cell : +44 (0) 7500 895568 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 > > > > -- > Vinay Gupta > Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest > > http://bit.ly/gupta_arc <http://bit.ly/gupta_arc%20>- the Gupta State > Failure Management Archive > http://bit.ly/gupta_ark - or see it directly on Archive.org > > http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering > http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision > > "In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an > invincible summer" - Albert Camus > > Twitter/Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt > UK Cell : +44 (0) 7500 895568 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 > > > > Hexayurt Builders in Reno or Bay > Area?<http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/t/5bb9773bc6eab5f1> > > ")(hoenix" <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>> Mar 28 02:21PM -0700 > > Hi, I would like to assemble a team of Hexayurt builders who live in > Reno > or the SF Bay Area for a two day cut & assemble in Reno in (maybe?) > July. > > There will also be two days (Sat & Sun pre gates) of assembly on the > playa > and one day for take down (Monday). All work days are paid & include > food. > > Reno Weekend: From the Bay Area, gas, shared hotel room (if no > friends) & > meals covered. From Reno, we feed you. > > On Playa: pay, food & beer > > We will have fabrication space in Reno. > > We will be building Pentayurts, H12's & H15's. > > Hope some of you are interested. Thanks for your considerations. > > Thanks, Cheers & Peace Phoenix > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group > hexayurt. > You can post via email <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');>. > To unsubscribe from this group, send <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > '[email protected]');> an empty message. > For more options, visit <http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt/topics>this > group. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "hexayurt" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. 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