Hello, my name is Chris Nogy, and I am an amateur instrument builder. I work in wood, metal, plastic, bone, horn, paper.
I have had instance to work with mechanical systems in instruments, and the opportunity to try several lubricants. I can say that everyone here who says silicon can and will ruin a finish is right. Silicon is so inert that there is no good way to clean it - it reacts to nothing, and as such cannot be dissolved. Even as a spray it is pure and just atomized - the carrier does not dissolve it, just suspends it. It makes a GREAT moisture barrier in any porous material - if you reb silicon into a piece of wood, it will stop moisture from entering or exiting the wood - it will essentially freeze the wood at a single moisture content level, thus keeping it from expanding or contracting. But for keys, most of the time the body of the keybox is far more prone to swelling and shrinking than the keybars themselves. Our keyboxes are made of materials similar to the bodies of the instruments, and the keybars are made usuaally of much harder and more stable stuff. So my apporach is to try to stabilize the holes in the keybox rather than the keybars themselves. Using water-based penetrating polyurethane gloss clear varnish, thinned even further, and applied to the insides of all the keyholes in several coats (after the exterior finish is applied) has worked for me. After polishing the insides of the holes with a maple stick with 2000 grit sandpaper rubber cemented to it, a light application of light canning or candle wax (paraffin) on a felt-covered stick and the hole remains stable. I use woods like ebony and purpleheart for my keybars, and cherry and walnut for my boxes, and keep tolerances close but not overly tight, this has never failed me. The only issue I might have with Wolfgang's suggestion is that unless you work REALLY hard to get the silicon rubbed into and off the keybar, there will be a little transfer to the area around the keyhole, and this might be enough to cause problems to the finish. I would also suggest wearing gloves if you are going to try judicious application of silicon - it stays on your hands as long as it stays on anything else, and then if you touch your instrument, you leave silicon residue. I tend to like lubricants that are not as 'permanent' as silicon - but that is me - I enjoy tearing down my instrument and putting it back together every once in a while, it gives me a real chance to see issues before they become problems, and make repairs and improvements as I go. I realize not everyone likes doing this, so the 'permanent' lubes are very attractive. But what makes them so attractive is also what can cause problems, so if you do use any of these materials, be very careful. With care and foresight, you can effectively and safely use almost any product, but some take more prep and work than others. Chris Nogy *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 9/17/2006 at 10:43 AM Wolfgang Weichselbaumer wrote: >Hi Cali and all interested list members, > > >silicon spray make no sense to use it for other instruments. > >if you are afraid about the finish, remove the sticky key from the HG and >try the spray in a wide distance to the HG. >this makes the key less sensitive to humidity because silicone spray >stopps the water to go into the wood. > > >regards > > >Wolfgang > > >Drehleierbau Weichselbaumer >Westbahnstraße 35/10 >1070 Wien-Austria >www.weichselbaumer.cc > > > > > > > >Am So, 17.09.2006, 05:07, schrieb Craig Currier: >> I am an amateur luthier lurking on the list. I have been a member of >> the Guild of American luthiers for 20 years. I have repaired and restored >> guitars and banjos, built harps and dulcimers and ukuleles and my wife >> Barbara and I are now engaged in the process of restoring >> to playability an historical French hurdy-gurdy ( 18th or 19th century, >> depending on whom you talk to ) cast off by the Boston Museum of Fine >> Arts. Their loss is our "interesting" project. That is >> why I signed onto this list in the first place. >> >> My experience and that of every other luther of my acquaintance is >> that that silicone is evil. It compromises any and every finish ancient >or >> modern and cannot be removed from woods or finish it it has been applied >> to. Period. >> >> Note that I do say "finish" and not "raw ebony." That is out of my >> experience. >> >> I do not think lutherie is one of the great mysteries, but I would >> urge every instrument owner to be very cautious of what you do to your >> instrument. I have myself seen a lovely inlaid early 20th century guitar >> which sold for a third of its potential value (10K$/ 30K$) because the >> owner chose to darken the authentic ivory bridge with black magic marker >> which could not be removed. >> >> Anyway, ...it's your instrument, enjoy it, >> >> >> Best wishes, Craig Currier >> >> >> >> On Sep 16, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Alden & Cali Hackmann wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Dear Wolfgang, >>> >>> >>> This is a very generous offer, thank you. I would indeed be >>> interested in hearing about your technique. >>> >>> I think that this is exactly the kind of discussion that should go >>> on this list. With your agreement I propose the following which I think >>> will address several issues at once. >>> >>> First, the population of the list changes frequently and not >>> everyone is acquainted with us, so if you would be willing to start with >>> a short introduction of who you are and what you have been working on. >>> This will give everyone a context in which to put the >>> information. You have been doing some amazing things of which not >>> everyone is aware. >>> >>> Second, let us go back to posting this under the topic of "Sticky >>> Keys" so that readers like Ben who are not interested can quickly >>> delete the posts. >>> >>> Third, please post your techniques and materials for dealing with >>> sticky keys and if necessary give your reasons why you use the >particular >>> materials and protocols. >>> >>> Fourth, I will respond with the same and would like to invite the >>> other luthiers lurking on the list to do the same--Bela, Chris, Helmut, >>> Marcello, Matt, Mike, Nagy, Neil, anyone else have some input? >>> >>> >>> Finally, once we have all weighed in to our satisfaction Alden and >>> I will post this discussion on our FAQ. In this way we can put all >>> this knowledge in one place and direct any further questions about the >>> topic to an easily accessible place. Hopefully this will minimize >>> further discussion on the list while still providing a broad spectrum of >>> ideas from which players can make an informed choice. >>> >>> Sound okay to you? >>> >>> >>> I will ask that you be a little patient over this next week with my >>> reply because we are getting ready to go to OTW on Tuesday and things >are >>> a bit hectic around here :-) >>> >>> Also, anyone willing to post to this discussion should be aware >>> that this information will be posted to a public website rather than >just >>> a private e-mail list and by participating you are giving implicit >>> permission for us to post this. (Sorry about the legalese, I guess I >>> worked in a law firm too long ;-) ) >>> >>> ---------Cali >>> >>> >>>> Hi Cali, >>>> >>> >>>> if you are interested how to use silicon spray in a good way for your >>>> instruments, please contact me off-list. I think it´s not so >>>> interesting for the list members. >>> >>> >>>> all the best >>> >>> >>>> Wolfgang >>>> >>> >>
