Neil> IMHO, life's too short to agonise over the finer points of Kirnberger II Neil> and Valotti ( no offence Simon ). It takes immense skill to give every note Neil> exactly the same pressure and unless this is achieved, the notes are always Neil> going to vary in pitch by a tiny amount each time they are played.
EK> Forget Kirnberger, Valotti, mean tone temperament and other baroque > > tunings: > > EK> they have been conceived for harmony, for changing chords and > > changing > > EK> tonalities, not for drone music. They make as little sense for a hg > > as > > EK> equal temperament. > > > > Matthias> partly agreed. A lot of baroque tunings make no sense on a > > modern hg. > > Matthias> But they are all compromises between a "beautiful" just > > temperament > > Matthias> and other tunings, eg. just temperaments in other keys. And > > this we > > Matthias> can find also on the hg as soon as one plays not only in C but > > also in > > Matthias> G (first thing when you play just C tuning in a piece in G you > > will > > Matthias> realize your A is too low). So compromises are already needed > > here. I > > Matthias> found Kirnberger II (which is the only tuning from this time > > that uses > > Matthias> just fifths) especially useful for baroque tuning (keys from > > Matthias> C,G,D,A,Ab,Eb,Bb and c and g minor). > > Yes, Kirnberger II uses a set of pure fifths (9 of the 12, with one fifth almost pure and two rather bad), but on the hg we only need pure fifths to de bourdon(s). So, if you have G and C bourdons, the fifths F-C, C-G and G-D, should be pure. Moreover, the thirds to the bourdons should be pure: C-E and G-B. And yes, Kirnberger II has this property. But the minor thirds C-Es and G-Bes are badly out of tune: 22 cents too small. In fact, this is a compromiss in order to be able to play in many more tonalities, and it is needlessly bad on a hg (apart from the case of playing together, for instance with a harpsichord). Although some impureness of minor thirds plus an octave (relative to a bourdon!) is not very obvious, this degree of impureness can be heard well. The A of Kirnberger on -5 cent (relative to equal temperature) is a compromiss as wel, making the sixth to the C-bourdon 11 cents too large and the second to the G 9 cent too small. You may like this compromiss, it is a matter of taste/choice. In my experience a bad second is more disturbing than a bad sixth on the hg, due to the fact that these are relative to a bourdon, making the intervals one or two octaves larger. This experience can be explained by looking to corresponding overtones; I have explained that in my article on tuning the tangents. Anyhow, I prefer a A pure to the G, so I make it 9 cent higher than in Kirnberger II. Details can be found in http://www.orfeo-fiato.nl/hurdy_gurdy_tuning.html Ernic Matthias> For my modern instrument I use a personal solution with some notes > > in > > Matthias> just temperament, some in well tempered but as well the "-5 > > cent A" from > > Matthias> Kirnberger II (that is high enough to be played in a chromatic > > context > > Matthias> and low enough to have a more beautiful characteristic in C). > > Matthias> > > Matthias> Matthias > > Matthias> > > Matthias> > > Matthias> ps: kirnberger II > > Matthias> > > Matthias> C 0.0 > > Matthias> Db -9.8 > > Matthias> D 3.9 > > Matthias> Eb -5.9 > > Matthias> E -13.7 > > Matthias> F -2.0 > > Matthias> > > Matthias> F# -9.8 > > Matthias> G 2.0 > > Matthias> Ab -7.8 > > Matthias> A -4.9 > > Matthias> Bb -3.9 > > Matthias> H -11.7 > > > > > > > > > > EK> And yes, Neil, you are almost right: this natural harmonic tuning > > makes > > EK> things worse, or even terrible, with different drones, generally. > > But it > > EK> works (almost) perfectly if only two drones a fifth or a fourth > > apart are > > EK> used, for instance only G and c or only G and d. Details and > > explanations > > EK> can be found in my article on tuning the tangents: > > EK> http://www.orfeo-fiato.nl/hurdy_gurdy_tuning.html > > > > EK> Tuning your hg in something like natural harmonic temperament may > > conflict > > EK> or not with other players/singers. If you are really playing drone > > music, > > EK> there should not be a conflict. But, for instance, playing with a > > melodion > > EK> or a guitar, the conflicts are already intrinsic to the combination > > of a > > EK> drone and a harmony instrument; so, why not give it a try in such a > > case as > > EK> well? > > > > EK> Ernic > > > > >
