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http://members.muslimsites.com/morolandsite/
'We have to fight forever'
(Last of two parts)
EDITOR'S NOTE: INQUIRER Mindanao Bureau Chief Carolyn A. Arguillas interviewed Salamat
Hashim, chair of the
Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) in his base in Camp Abubakar, Maguindanao last
Saturday. The following are excerpts from her interview.
Q. You say you won't stop until independence is gained. So what's the purpose of the
peace negotiations?
A. To convince the Philippine government it is better for them to pave the way for the
peaceful and democratic return of the
independence of the Bangsamoro homeland.
By this, the Philippine government will not be embarrassed, will not spend so much
money. So instead of spending P40 million
every day for military operations against the MILF, it is better to spend that on the
people who are suffering.
Not only the Bangsamoro are suffering. There are many people in the Philippines who
are suffering from poverty, sickness, lack
of education.
Instead of spending money in fighting the MILF, it's better for the government to pave
the way for a referendum so it can spend
the money intended for war for the benefit of the poor Filipinos.
Q. Very easily said but that's very difficult to do.
A. That is why we have to fight for it.
Q. I was told most of your ammunition are coming from the military?
A. Come from military but of course we're getting the money (to pay for it) from our
people and if there is no war, our people
will not contribute. So why should they give the MILF if there is no war?
It is only because of the war that people give us money. If there is no war, who will
give us? Nobody.
Q. But isn't that perpetuating a cycle?
A. No, it is not. The idea here is for us to persuade the Philippine government to
pave the way for peaceful return of freedom
and self-determination to the Bangsamoro people rather than use the military because
on the part of the MILF, if Philippine
government will not continue with the idea that it is not possible to grant
independence to us, we have to fight forever.
Which is better? Fighting forever or solving the problem now and letting the
Bangsamoro regain freedom and
self-determination?
Q. Your bullets and firearms, some of these are purchased from the military. We're
just using the same bullets to kill each other.
A. Yes. Bullets of the military, bullets of the government. Coming from government.
Q. But it's also become the bullet of the MILF. Isn't this...
A. This is also supportive to the idea that the military wants to continue fighting
not because they are targeting the MILF but
Estrada.
If the AFP merely wants to (fight us), they should not sell their bullets to the MILF.
This means the MILF is not the real enemy.
The real enemy is the administration. If the MILF is the real enemy, why are they
selling bullets to the MILF?
Q. Poverty is a major issue in this fight. Neglect, etc.. You maintain a large army.
You spend a lot of money on ammunition.
Don't you think also that that money is best spent on...
A. Well most of the money, we are spending for ammunition. We know we cannot get this
money if there is no fighting. That is
the reason why we don't mind to continue the war.
Q. At the moment, the OIC recognizes only the MNLF as sole representative. Libya's
former ambassador here, Rajab
Azzarouq, had been visiting you, Libyan President Khadaffy's son had been visiting
you.
Would you still need the adherence of Misuari for a joint undertaking to make a
stronger representation to the OIC that it
should also recognize the MILF?
A. If the agreements (with the MNLF) supported by the OIC succeeded, there will be no
reason for the OIC to support the
MILF but because all the efforts of the OIC failed, the problem is not solved. We
feel the OIC has no alternative except to
change its position, adopt another policy.
Let us see what will happen. Now I am telling you we are very optimistic that the OIC
instead of recognizing the MNLF will
recognize us. You'll see what will happen in three months' time.
Q. I know. In June. When the OIC meets in Kuala Lumpur. Which is why President Estrada
is insisting on a June deadline.
A. (Smiles). We'll see what will happen.
Q. But you have a third rival of sorts. The Philippine government is lobbying for
transfer of the MNLF observer status in the
OIC to the government.
A. But it will be stupid to do that. With the failure of the Tripoli Agreement, the
SPCPD, ARMM, I think the OIC is so stupid
if it will allow Philippine government to be (observer) in OIC. That is impossible.
Q. How come you're not chairman of the peace panel? It baffles me.
A. I am not Misuari. If I were Misuari, then I'd be the chairman of the peace panel.
But I'm not Misuari.
Q. Or are you just scared perhaps that if an agreement is reached with you as chair of
MILF peace panel and the agreement is
not implemented, you'll end up like Misuari.
A. We're a well-organized organization. The central committee of the MILF can appoint
anybody to negotiate. It is not
necessary for the chairman to negotiate.
Q. What would your separate country be like given that Mindanao right now is composed
of 24 provinces and 20 cities and
nearly 500 towns. You listed down...
A. Maguindanao, Lanao del Sur, Basilan, Tawi-Tawi and Sulu and also certain
municipalities in Lanao del Norte, North
Cotabato, Zamboanga, South Cotabato, Sarangani, Davao, Sultan Kudarat.
Q. Government is saying you just cannot do that. That if there's a referendum at all,
it will not be just within those
Moro-dominated areas because this would mean dismemberment of the country.
A. The kind of referendum would depend on the demand of the people. If it's possible
the referendum would be throughout
Mindanao, let us ask the people what they want. Those who vote for independence, those
who remain, let them. We believe
this is the most peaceful way. Just ask the people. Those provinces choosing
independence, let them be independent. Let it be
like that. So there's no problem.
Q. There may be no problem from your point of view but this would be viewed as
dismembering the country.
A. When the Philippine government annexed our homeland, it was illegal and immoral.
And since the annexation of the
Bangsamoro homeland was illegal and immoral, then we're not dismembering the country.
This is not originally part of the Philippines. Annexation is a violation of human
rights. This will show the Philippine government
is a barbarous government, a perpetrator of human rights violations.
Now we ask the Philippine government to pave the way for the peaceful and democratic
return of independence to our
people or we will fight forever.
History has shown our people fought for over 300 years the Spaniards and the
Americans. If our ancestors managed to fight
that long, the present generation can fight the Philippine government forever.
So which is better? Fight forever or solve the problem democratically?
Q. Let us grant a referendum is held and these Moro-dominated provinces vote for
independence and that you get it. What
kind of country would that be when even the territory is not contiguous?
A. Geographical location is artificial. It's people making geographical location.
There was no America before.
The Philippine territory was established by imperialists, not by people of the
Philippines. Therefore, it is not permanent.
Q. Wouldn't it be better, wouldn't you have a stronger voice if the MNLF and the MILF
come together and negotiate on behalf
of the Bangsamoro people? Is that possible?
A. The MNLF actually negotiated for the Bangsamoro people and the MNLF failed because
the agreements reached did not
solve the problem.
We welcome Misuari if he wants to join us, if he accepts his failures. We will accept
him. He is very, very welcome. Matter of
fact he came here three times already.
Q. Most of the negotiations that go into what you would call a peace agreement are
those done through the backroom. Back
channels.
For instance, isn't part of what would be considered as backroom deal (Secretary
Robert) Aventajado's coming over, forging
agreements?
A. Whatever agreement will be reached through back channels will also be passed to the
negotiating panel to finalize it. For
example, Aventajado comes here and we happen to agree on something, this is usually
finalized by the negotiating panel.
It is possible that these back channel activities will also help in achieving
something.
Q. This is a very long struggle and it is very costly not only in terms of lives but
resources. How do you sustain an army?
A. The barbarous operation of the Armed Forces of the Philippines is helping us. The
burning of mosques, houses. Even
without asking for contribution from the Muslim world, they will come and contribute
to us, help us.
If there is peace, if there is nothing happening, then it is very difficult for us to
solicit from local people and outside the country.
But most of the Muslims all over the world are very sensitive people.
When they hear Muslim brothers in other areas are being oppressed, mosques are
desecrated, then even if you do not ask for
contribution, they come, like what happened in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc. But if there is
peace, they never help.
Q. But it is also possible that some of your forces are instigating the fighting so
the military will retaliate.
A. We could not do that. It's not easy to fight. Nobody wants to fight actually. It is
stupid to instigate fighting.
They're the ones to suffer. If they don't get killed, they suffer from hunger. It is
difficult. So no one will instigate.
Q. Why did Secretary Aventajado have to say transform the MILF camps into economic
zones when your camps are unlike
the government military camps but are economic zones by themselves.
A. Yes, but I think it is part of the counterinsurgency program of government to offer
development. We welcome these offers.
When government said it will convert these camps into economic zones, we didn't mind.
Let them convert these into economic zones so we will have something to support our
needs. The most difficult thing is survival
of our armed forces here.
We're maintaining 10,000 fighting men inside the camp so we really need the economic
development of Mr. Aventajado to
support that 10,000 fighting men.
Q. But isn't that agreeing to government's...
A. You see, our revolutionary tactic is very unique. Some revolutionary organizations
will never agree to the offer of
government to develop their area because it is known as counterinsurgency but our
people are different.
The target of counterinsurgency is to stop the people from revolting against the
Philippine government but in the case of our
people here, they will never stop until they get independence. So no problem.
It is the problem of some revolutionary struggles, maybe the counterinsurgency will
affect them but in our case, no, it will not
affect us. As a matter of fact, we believe it will help us.
Q. Help you?
A. For example if there will be no economic development, we cannot support our camp.
We need economic development to
support our fighters.
Q. What would you say to the evacuees, particularly those in the Lanao provinces,
most of them Moro people, who are
receiving the brunt of this war in Kauswagan?
A. Let them convince the national government that a referendum here be conducted by
the UN should be allowed by the
Philippine government to end the war.
If there's a referendum and the Bangsamoro will vote for autonomy, then the MILF will
stop fighting the Philippine government
because Bangsamoro will respect the people's vote. If it is independence, we will work
for independence.
We believe this is the only peaceful and correct solution, ask them what they want.
Q. Why the UN? Why not just the OIC?
A. What we need from the OIC is an endorsement to the UN because..
Q. But is there a likelihood you'll get that?
A. If we can't get that from OIC, (then) from some members of the OIC. We need the
endorsement of at least one country.
We know now there are some countries willing to endorse us?
Q. How many countries?
A. More than one
Q. You're very secretive. Is it a major country?
A. You'll know it later.
Q. How would you like history to judge you?
A. I would like history to judge me as I am not more than I am, not more, not less. I
do not want history to exaggerate whether
(the) positive side or negative side. What I want is just what I am.
Q. How would you like to be remembered? As an ustadz, MILF chair?
A. I would like to be remembered as an innocent civilian forced to fight to defend my
people, that's all. As a matter of fact, I
am maintaining I am still a civilian. I'm not a fighter.
I don't want to kill anybody. But I have to defend my people, organize and defend my
people. I do not want to kill anybody but
I also don't want people to kill any of my people...
Q. Your message to President Estrada?
A. I am inviting him to make peace, to stop his armed forces from fighting, attacking
our forces and I'll stop mine. Mr. Estrada,
President Estrada, or if we have to be diplomatic about this, if His Excellency can
stop AFP in attacking MILF, I promise
1,000 percent that I will stop my MILF from fighting so there will be peace.
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