"I know they are working on Source 2.0, and maybe with that, we will get better Mod Tools. I wouldn't imagine that Valve will simply dump the community, I just think it isn't worth it to make new tools for the current source engine."
That's true. But, then again, Source 2.0 will probably be heavily based on Source, and some tools would probably not need much tweaking between the two. And as for them dumping the community, its always possible. Companies have no morals they only follow profits and loosely laws. Its very easy for them to detach from any resentment. Just like when you work as an IT tech and someone give you crap you don't really care, because they're blaming the company that hired you.Its like an invisible scapegoat.. I might be speculating a little here though.. But, anyways, I'm just really worried right now. I'm afraid to have worked on this mod on this engine for nothing. Just because Valve wants to make more hats... And with the steam pipe update coming for the alienswarm sdk I'm slightly worried it will break something, as usual. And given that sdk updates aren't exactly common, this could be a problem ! "I agree with everyone here that the valve tools are a joke, from a decade ago. Open Sourcing all the tools could double the productivity of modders without ANY COST TO VALVE. ( and possibly double the lifespan of the SourceEngine) As for the steam distribution future? In 10 years everyone is going to be sad when none of the games work. Valve cannot compete against google, microsoft, apple, sony, when it comes to content distribution. The only hope valve has, is push the cards as hard as possible and HOPE for a buyout. I bet on a microsoft buyout, that will make linux,mac gaming harder. Microsoft will then fire all valve employees. To people who defend Valve, or attack the valve criticizers : You are only doing yourself and Valve a disservice." Hammer must be more than a decade old I think. And there is still code from quake/2 around especially in the part handling bsp maps ! Open sourcing would be great, but I doubt there would be no cost. They got to pay the guy who will start the upload, the place to host the code ( I'm not sure if free code hosts don't have policies against commercial uses of their services ). Also, I'm not sure I want them to double the lifespan of the source engine, all thing considered ! And Google, Microsoft, Apple and Sony are bigger than Valve, but they're also very stupid... They got into the IP game and they're stuck in it.. Patent this, patent that, sue this, sue that.. Google is currently acting as scapegoat for the butt problems of half the planet sending them DMCAs by the billion.. And they're being the bitch of the MPAA/RIAA, and etc... They're now too busy policing the internet and their services to do much IMO. Microsoft isn't in such a good position after Windows 8, Steve Ballmer and etc.. Its hard to tell what they're gonna do now.. ( I've even heard hardcore Windows user since 3.1 talking about switching to Linux or OSX after support is dropped on 7 ! ) Apple's guru is dead, and they're loosing their (really stupid (page turning anyone ?) ) patent cases left and right. FFS, they even sued Panasonic, who were/are making parts for their products <_< Arrogance can only bring you so far.. ( Sorry if I sound a little anti-Apple. But I don't really have anything about Apple product users, just Apple itself. ) I would very hardly see Sony starting a really big content distribution network on an uncontrolled environment like a PC or an android device. They have lots of interests in the movie and music business, both of which are stuck in their little worlds where everybody wants to buy absolutely anything coming from their rear end from them, and where everybody have enough money to buy like 200 dvds per year ( I actually really heard that somewhere that some company related to the MPAA had calculated everybody could buy that much stuff yearly (of course, I'm probably deforming what was written given I can't trace the article back right now..) ), and where everything must have DRMs and be locked, and also where they must retain full or partial ownership of everything they sell... I'm probably exaggerating, but all these big monopolies aren't doing all that good.. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned EA though. Origin is bad, but they have the means to make it work eventually, unfortunately.. And I'm not really defending Valve, because I don't really know much about them, and I'm kinda disillusioned right now about them to say the least... And there I go again.. Sorry for the huge read. Please, don't mention anything that might touch IP again, so I don't write another book in email form XD On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> wrote: > "I know they are working on Source 2.0, and maybe with that, we will get > better Mod Tools. I wouldn't imagine that Valve will simply dump the > community, I just think it isn't worth it to make new tools for the current > source engine." > > > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Michael Kramer <kra...@siosphere.com>wrote: > >> I know they are working on Source 2.0, and maybe with that, we will get >> better Mod Tools. I wouldn't imagine that Valve will simply dump the >> community, I just think it isn't worth it to make new tools for the current >> source engine. >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Oh great.. I actually believed what Gabe said about "being hard at work" >>> on new updated mod tools.. <_< >>> >>> And they can't be serious.. I tried every single other freaking engines >>> I know of that are open to mods, and not all that archaic (Unreal, Unity, >>> Cryengine3, ). And the only one that had most of what I wanted, was >>> Source.. >>> No shitty proprietary script language you'll only ever use when working >>> on that engine, C++, an actual base with existing code to start from, tons >>> of examples, access to shaders, a fairly big community built around it, >>> capability for in-game cutscenes, the less locked features as possible, >>> reasonable physics, etc.. >>> The only thing I really didn't want was Hammer, and all the crap tools >>> that comes with it.. >>> >>> I was hoping that SFM with its very well done UI and very extensive >>> features would bring a wind of change in the way Valve makes tools for >>> their "content creator" community ! But what you're saying sounds as if >>> they said : >>> "Yeah, it wasn't really cool bro, no money and all. So we just decided >>> to ignore the people that trusted us and ragequit, screwing everything up >>> for them ! YOLO !" >>> >>> The worst part is that its way too late to change engine for my project >>> now.. And engine switch usually kills mods quicker than crappy sdk tools... >>> >>> >>> >>> "This message isn't to troll the group it's a wake up call to all the >>> people that made the community great and the games better. Stop wasting >>> your time trying to use this valve garbage and keep re-fixing all the stuff >>> they break with every update. Start learning to code, and apply your know >>> how to something you can actually control." >>> >>> http://youtu.be/ztVMib1T4T4 >>> Wake up call ? Stop wasting your time ? Really ? If you were actually >>> trying to be helpful, well I don't think you're cut out for the job.. For >>> one, helpful people actually say constructive things.. People won't go : >>> "Oh, really ? I could never figure this out by myself, thanks ! And I can >>> totally restart everything from scratch on a brand new engine, while being >>> a small mod team with not budget or income, running on motivation alone !" >>> >>> And the fact that you added "Start learning to code.." just makes this >>> thing all the more insulting and ridiculous.. I've been studying for 8 >>> years in the field, and I coded even before that.. >>> I don't claim to be a veteran, but seriously, who the hell do you think >>> you're talking to, elementary school kids ? Batch files, and excel >>> programmers ? I'm sure most of the people here have at least a good >>> understanding of C++, given that, the SDK code IS in C++.. Just saying.. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I want enemy behavior to react to voice so client side only isn't >>>> enough. Thank you all for the help. >>>> Nick, I actually had a phone interview with valve in the last few >>>> months and asked directly about their poor support for source engine. The >>>> response I got came down to they aren't interested in sinking a lot of >>>> resources to compete with Unreal and Unity and the other major game >>>> engines. Clearly someone internally has done the math and the cost of of >>>> development and upkeep on the sdk must have worse returns compared with >>>> putting the dev time elsewhere. I didn't get the job, not >>>> enough experience, but it was a great conversation and I have the utmost >>>> respect for them. It just sucks for the modders that we aren't getting the >>>> support we want. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I blame valve a great deal for this. I understand Valve is basing the >>>>> entire hopes of the company on steam distribution/DRM. I still believe >>>>> valve should not be so quick to abandon the roots of what has always made >>>>> it money, modding and the vast amount of games that will be made FOR THEIR >>>>> ENGINE! >>>>> >>>>> Valve, open up source engine modding more, make hammer map editor open >>>>> source, allow source mods to run on linux. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Jed <j...@wunderboy.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Neico pretty much nailed what I was in the process of writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> At least back in the EP1 code base there was still code to handle the >>>>>> original HL1 method of moving the player model mouths based on the >>>>>> amplitude of the input audio. It basically moved a controller bone alone >>>>>> a >>>>>> defined axis based on the volume making the jaw "flap". It's in the code >>>>>> base for the HL1:Source port. >>>>>> >>>>>> I used it myself and got the mouths of HL2 player models to move >>>>>> based on the in-game voice volume so the code is still "valid". >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd start looking there at the code that controls the jaw and look at >>>>>> where to pull the amplitude out (a normalised value). >>>>>> >>>>>> // Jed >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8 May 2013 10:40, Neico <ad...@neic0.de> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You're only able to get which player is currently speaking by >>>>>>> pPlayer->IsSpeaking() was the function I believe, for the waveforms, >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are hidden behind an internal engine interface which you can't access >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> normal ways (if one got trough that feel free to write it down here), >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> I've been mimicing it by using random (the following code is taken from >>>>>>> Garry's Lua code for moving the player's mouth and turned into C++ Code >>>>>>> with a working solution), also note that this is client side code (I >>>>>>> use it >>>>>>> in CHL2MPPlayerAnimState::Update in case you want to know): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if( m_fVoiceTimeout >= gpGlobals->curtime ) return; >>>>>>> // If we had access to the volume or waveforms from the player >>>>>>> one could replace the following line to use that instead of a Random >>>>>>> Float, >>>>>>> but this is as close as it'll get >>>>>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( >>>>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && >>>>>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) m_fVoice = ( >>>>>>> random->RandomFloat( 0.1f, 1.0f ) / m_fVoice ); >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LocalFlexController_t iFlexNum = >>>>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->GetNumFlexControllers(); >>>>>>> if( --iFlexNum <= 0 ) return; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> for( LocalFlexController_t i = LocalFlexController_t( 0 ); i < >>>>>>> iFlexNum; i++ ) >>>>>>> { >>>>>>> const char* szName = pHL2MPPlayer->GetFlexControllerName( i >>>>>>> ); >>>>>>> >>>>>>> if( !V_strcmp( szName, "jaw_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, >>>>>>> "right_part" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_part" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, >>>>>>> "right_mouth_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_mouth_drop" ) ) >>>>>>> { >>>>>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( >>>>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && >>>>>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) >>>>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, clamp( m_fVoice * 2, 0, 2 ) ); >>>>>>> else pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, 0 ); >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> m_fVoiceTimeout = gpGlobals->curtime + 0.2f; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope this helps you figure out how to do whatever you're trying to >>>>>>> archive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08.05.2013 10:23, Garry Newman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think it's exposed to modders. I had to add engine code to >>>>>>> get it in G(arry's )Mod. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was hoping someone might be able to help me out. I'd like access >>>>>>>> to info about the waveforms sent by people using in game voice. I'd >>>>>>>> mainly >>>>>>>> like to know how loud they are speaking (or some similar average >>>>>>>> value) and >>>>>>>> I'd like to be able to keep a list updated with which players are >>>>>>>> speaking. >>>>>>>> My initial search through the code for this functionality didn't turn >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> much. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jesse >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>>> please >>>>>>> visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jesse >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Michael Kramer, Software Engineer & SEO Expert* >> http://www.siosphere.com | kra...@siosphere.com >> *[c] 801-530-9454* >> * >> * >> * >> * >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >> addressed. 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