They maybe heated but I don't think they are flawed, and experience is a great teacher, and some people are actually intelligent enough to learn from it.
Have you learnt anything yet? On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:08:45 +1000, Bruce Bahamut Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I dunno about you but if I were a VALVe employee right about now I'd be > thinking you were a toss and ignoring your opinions (no offence) because > they're rather heated and generally heated arguements are flawed and > just some angry person ranting about something random. > > Try the nice approach, you -may- get a reply (though doubtful). > > - Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews > > Whisper wrote: > > >Oh, and another thing, I'm pretty sure there are people out there who > >care about these things who would love to have on their CV's "Fixed > >STEAM" > > > >You could even run a workshop sponsered by Valve over a week, and > >people would come and tell them how to do things. > > > >I mean if they can take days out to show case their product they can > >sure as hell spare the time to learn how to fix their product for the > >good of everybody and the sanity of many a Network and Server > >Administrator! :) > > > >On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:47:26 +1000, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >>They seriously need to talk to IBM Global Services or something like > >>that, and some beneficant CISCO engineers, not sales but CISCO > >>qualified guys who know wtf they are doing and give a shit about their > >>reputations, to walk them through a few things, and sit down whoever > >>needs to be sat down and told, "This is how you need to do your shit > >>if you want to survive on the Internet!" > >> > >> > >> > >>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:23:17 -0400, K. Mike Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >>>They are all game programmers and not network or IT engineers. > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > >>>Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:49 PM > >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>Subject: Re: [hlds] For Bruce B. Snipett of Doug Lombardi interview > >>> > >>>Personally I do not think STEAM is a bad idea per se, although I would be > >>>extremely concerned with some of the possibilities if you are of the > >>>paranoid conspiracy ilk, as there are some definite conclusions you can draw > >>>that are a logical consequence of this technology. > >>> > >>>That being said, the whole thing was a complete design and implementation > >>>cluster fuck from almost the beginning. > >>> > >>>How Valve had no idea how many users they were going to have to service on > >>>the STEAM Network I will ever understand. > >>> > >>>The complete naivety Valve displays in regards to the security of their > >>>software borders on the sophomoric at the best of times. At worst it is > >>>completely negligent!! Their design philosophys might have worked back in > >>>1995 when the Internet really started to kick off, and nobody knew what they > >>>were really doing, but in the 21st century you build your network > >>>applications based on the following principles: > >>> > >>>1. Whatever Network Bandwidth you think you are going to need, double it, > >>>people can never get enough, and be in the position to quickly double it > >>>again on demand with a sub 24 hour turn around. > >>> > >>>2. Servers and Server Process break down, for crying out loud, automate the > >>>monitoring of the damn things if you can't put bodies on them to watch them > >>>24/7 and setup things so when something crashes, it is restarted > >>>automatically. > >>> > >>>3. The Internet is a dangerous place, assume people are going to try to fuck > >>>you, your network and your software up with methodical malicious intent and > >>>plan accordingly. > >>> > >>>I know I go on about this shit constantly, but who here with experience with > >>>Networks and Servers could not have foreseen many of the problems that Valve > >>>seem to blindly stumble into on a regular basis? > >>> > >>>And what is worse though, is that it is going to happen again and again and > >>>again because whatever software culture they have over it Valve is, its not > >>>working at a very fundamental level. > >>> > >>>The worst thing is, their idea's are great, STEAM is a great idea (poor > >>>implemented mind you) their games are great when it comes to playing them. I > >>>suspect HL2 is going to make Doom3 seem like an annoyance in terms of its > >>>depth of story and useful visual effects and multi faceted possibilities, > >>>but they keep letting themselves down, which annoying to me because they > >>>promise so much!!! > >>> > >>>Anyhow that's the end of this rant for now. Guess you will all get another > >>>one soon enough, I'm afraid. > >>> > >>>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:32:25 -0700, Ooks Server <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>"After a bumpy first few months..." > >>>> > >>>>Bumpy? lol, what an understatement :-) It was more like slamming into > >>>>a brick wall at 180mph.... > >>>> > >>>>From their perspective, it is working just fine. There is an allowable > >>>>level of defects, and even if that means that 1% of their customers > >>>>are borked, it's still work well for the 99% and that is good enough. > >>>>How would you like it if your bank or credit card company screwed up 1% of > >>>> > >>>> > >>>their transactions? > >>> > >>> > >>>>Besides, what is he going to do, stand up and tell the truth that no > >>>>one wanted Steam in the first place but decided to shove crapware down > >>>>our throats because it helps maximize our shareholders wealth, and > >>>>that is all that counts after all... > >>>> > >>>>Quake4 is looking better and better..... > >>>> > >>>></cynicism> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>From: "Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:35 AM > >>>>Subject: Re: [hlds] For Bruce B. Snipett of Doug Lombardi interview > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>lol, maybe he doesn't know about the...issues ;) > >>>>> > >>>>>Shame I don't have his email address :( > >>>>> > >>>>>- Bruce "Bahamut" Andrews > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Napier, Kevin wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Clearly he's on medication. :) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>>>From: Dave R. Meyers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:29 AM > >>>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>Subject: [hlds] For Bruce B. Snipett of Doug Lombardi interview > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>HomeLAN - After a bumpy first few months, Steam seems to have > >>>>>>become a stable way to release Valve's products. Are you pleased > >>>>>>with the Steam content delivery system and what changes and > >>>>>>improvements to it can we expect in the months ahead? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Doug Lombardi - We're very pleased with how it has evolved. For > >>>>>>some > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>time, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>it's been a great backend for updates, anti-cheating, and server > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>browsing. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>It proved to be an incredibly valuable tool for administering the CS: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>Source > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>beta, allowing us to make changes and roll those changes to the > >>>>>>beta community almost instantly. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Just thought you would like his choice of words in regards to > >>>>>>steam. 8) > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Dave R. Meyers > >>>>>>OZ Deathmatch > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>archives, please visit: > >>>>>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>archives, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>please visit: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>archives, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>please visit: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>please visit: > >>> > >>> > >>>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> > >>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>please visit: > >>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > >>>visit: > >>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
