I am very happy with the numbers of eloquent responses, and the fact that people are beginning to understand that this is gone beyond a mere technical issue to a fundamental Business / Management issue that thus far Valve appear to failed to address.
I for one am not a Valve hater. I wish them to succeed by producing good product, at the moment they do not seem to be doing so and I am dismayed at the total lack of attention given this issue outside of this list. One would think it would warrant more attention, wouldn't you? The thing that most admins (and honest players most likely) want right now, is a fix to NO-STEAM and a working Anti-Cheat or a commitment from Valve stating they are putting ALL their resources to solving these problems and moreover, a further commitment to leave no stone unturned in search for a solution. If that means purchasing Cheating Death and/or HLGuard from United Admins so be it, since Valve does not seem to have had a problem with spending money on other peoples good ideas in the past! We don't want to see another map or fixes to bugs that have been in CS since the inception of the game ala kicking idle players, we honestly do not care anymore, and this constant updating and re-arranging of everything other than the STEAM Authentication system and VAC says to all of us that Valve does not care about Cheats or whether their STEAM system has been hacked to bits and makes us all wonder what is going on inside Valve and whether they take this issue seriously as the rest of us do or not. This list should server as a notice that people are starting to come close to their breaking point and something tangible ought to be brought to the fore before bad things start to Valves business because they completely mis-managed and underestimated the problem. On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:09:39 -0800, Darren Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Assume = ass of u & me. Never assume anything. This is Valve: Missed > deadlines, buggy bug fixes, and LITTLE to NO communication to us about what > is going on. Hopefully they will continue their monthly press release which > amounts to "were working on things" but don't assume they are working on the > issues which we are discussing here. > > The desire for a simple "Yes" or "No" stems from our continual > disappointment in these issues not being fixed. We hope and want to believe > they are working on these things, but until they TELL US DIRECTLY how would > we know. They could have spent the last 2 months trying to fix the "friends > list." They could be working on new maps/sounds/models. They could be > working on any frickin thing they want. We just want to know if they are > working on the issues which are critical to this game. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Davison > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:46 AM > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve's Business & Cheats > > ""Yes" or "No" as to whether they are even working on > no-steam and anti-cheat (and the ded server resource hogging)." > > Do you really need an answer to that? Of course they are working on it. > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:35:58 -0700, CHiLLZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think this is very well put and I totally echo your statements. I am a > > programmer myself, and so I respect the task in front of any developer in > > producing a quality product. However, I have been running servers for many > > years and this CS:S dedicated server is the worst I have experienced from > a > > technical standpoint. The lack of official documentation, the immense > server > > resource usage/leak, no anti-cheat, and the no-steam hacks, the buddy > system > > is a joke, etc, etc... > > > > The end result is that I am hearing every day about another admin who is > > shutting down their server and I must say the thought has crossed my mind. > I > > am not a Valve "hater" and neither am I a Valve "fan". I am neutral and > just > > like to have fun playing online with my friends, regardless of what game > we > > play. > > > > Also, it seems very strange that not one single Valve employee has even so > > much as commented on anything being discussed here. I mean, even if all > they > > do is say a simple "Yes" or "No" as to whether they are even working on > > no-steam and anti-cheat (and the ded server resource hogging). I subscribe > > to several other technical/admin mailing lists and this one has the least > > participation by the list owners of any list I have seen so far. > > > > - CHiLLZ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Choo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:27 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Valve's Business & Cheats > > > > Hi Rich, > > > > Good points you have there, and I agree that Valve's job is to make > > "Superior Games". Unfortunately due to the rise of online cheating more > and > > more people are expecting some anti-cheating utility as part of the game > > itself. Understandably a lot of stuff like PunkBuster or VAC are not > > perfect, but the quality of these anti-cheating tools serves to enhance > the > > gaming experience. > > > > Without a conducive environment to play a traditionally online game, it's > > quite difficult for many of us to say that HL2/CSS is truly "superior". > It's > > a horrible position to be in as a developer, but being able to meet as > many > > expectations as possible is what distinguishes a truly superior game from > > just another game on the market. > > > > Valve has done great things for the online community, and the number of > mods > > available in previous engines such as HL1 are testament of that > commitment. > > Right now I personally feel that Valve is living off the good reputation > of > > yesterday to keep it going today. Not only is it pre-selling games that > are > > still in the development stage, it is releasing games such as CS Source > > which are not quite close to the quality many of us were expecting - not > > having VAC is just one of those gripes. Rightly or wrongly, I feel that > the > > disenchantment of many admins signals a drop in standards, and if left > > unchecked we may not see the same kind of success in HL2 as with HL1. > > > > A large number of people in the community that I serve in Singapore are > > still playing HL1-based mods, and only a fraction have moved to HL2. There > > are many reasons why this could be the case, but I would like to suggest > > that the poor quality of HL2 in terms of lack of anti-cheating functions, > > mods, just so-so server support, and the numerous bugs and bugfixes that > > create even more bugs are what might be causing this. > > > > That said, I'll have to qualify that as a server admin I'm in the business > > of making money from online games, but while we do not pay Valve for these > > rights, we are here to serve the interests of people who have purchased > > these games and these guys naturally expect Valve to do much more than > what > > they're doing now. While we may act in our own self-interest, one cannot > > deny that we are also proxies for gamers who may not be very satisfied > with > > what they are experiencing with HL2/CSS now. > > > > Regards, > > Christopher Choo > > Fragnetics > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Welsh > > Sent: Wednesday, 26 January 2005 4:31 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Valve's Business & Cheats > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Maybe I messed up in the > > last email but here some clarification. > > > > Car Manufactorer Makes Car. > > Driver 1 Buys car > > Driver 2 Buys car > > > > Driver 1 drives through town A at 30mph > > Driver 2 drives through town A at 60mph > > > > Driver 1 gets mad and demands something be done. > > Car Manufactorer laughs and continues to make car Driver 1 is furios. > > Driver 2 is laughing at Driver 1 > > Driver 1 develops Police Department > > > > Police Department Makes Rules and Authorises people to make the rules are > > followed. > > > > Driver 1 drives through town A at 30mph > > Driver 2 drives through town A at 60mph > > > > Driver 2 sees something flashing in his mirror. > > Driver 2 hears a wailing sound. > > > > Driver 2 pulls to the side of the road. > > Police Officer comes up to his window. > > You have been caught speeding. > > > > Driver 2 says "Isn't it up to Car Manufactorer to control how fast I can > go? > > > > Police Officer says "No Son, we make the rules here and you have to follow > > them." > > > > Driver 1 = CS player > > Driver 2 = Cheating CS Player > > Police Department = Server Admins > > Police Officer = Admin or Anti-cheat detection system Town A = Server Car > > Manufactorer = Valve VAC = is the equivalent of a Rev-limiter on a motor > > vehicle > > > > If you think Valve is responsible to make an anti-cheat you are mistaking. > > It is not up to Valve to make an anti-cheat. They get no more money for > it > > from anyone when they make it. > > > > All Valve has to do is make games. That's it, nothing more. But they do > > alot more than that for the community. They patch their games, they > > support 3rd party mods, they take suggestions from the community, they do > > all this stuff and wow people bitch cause some lamer decides he wants to > > cheat. > > > > Just be glad Valve is here to make Superior games. Anything other than > the > > game is gravy on your Potatoes. > > > > Rich > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- > - Ben Davison > - http://www.shadow-phoenix.com > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
