Thank You!! Valve Software and keep up the good job!! We love your
games.
May the new year be good for everyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: December 25, 2005 1:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Re: unannounced updates
I understand the fustrations a lot of you express... I have my fair share
as
well... but let's look at the facts....
I work in the industry and a number of you whine and cry over what: Free
Maintenance and Upgrades at "NO COST". Recurring revenue is not based on
anything "FREE". The people at STEAM make available to you at thier cost
the updates, and maintenance to continue to enhance the game, fix it and
for
what? The hope by providing a better game full of enhancements and fixes
to
us the loyal parties, we will support future products.
Now I could understand the complaining over you paying for maintenace on
a
yearly period, which by the way is 10 - 23% percent of cost of the
application purchase price. But give them a break, they are trying no
matter how fustrating it may be to you to do it at thier cost, not at
yours.
And for those who have never wrote a full application for someone other
than
yourself, try it sometime and see if you do not get complaints, or
request
for enhancements, etc.
As for those who host a Server for money, Just what are you bitching
about
having to do some work to earn your money... is beyond me..... If you
entered this venture of hosting for money to sit on your a$$ and make
bucks
by turn it on and forget it mode... guess again... You are paid for
services
to host and update... as required... SO QUIT COMPLAINING about having to
do
the job you are paided for... If an update comes in... then it is your
job
or if your contract specifies it is the party who you are providing
services
to update it... then it is up to them.
Last of my rants... I think the people out there who code and develop
Plugin's and Admin Mods... hats off to you and people quit bitchin at
them
as well.... Again a loyal group of people who supply tools for the game
and at a price of FREE. A number of people and I was one... as well
bitched
and complained over something for FREE... well high time we should stop
and
just say THANK YOU... to those out there there support our Gaming,
Business
and care to make it better...
This forum has been very informational on subjects, supportive when bugs
and
a good group of people overall... On that note I will get down off my
soap
box and wish you all Safe and an Enjoyable Holiday..
- Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "StealthMode" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: [hlds] Re: unannounced updates
> In reply to my idea being absurd. That's funny your competitor's have
> been doing this for years. I guess that my "absurd" idea works
> flawlessly for professionals. Take it how you want.
>
> The server has to be up to date for a client to connect to it after
> they update. That is why "forcing updates during peak/rush hours" is
> not only necessary, but also often critical for your clients to have a
> smooth update transition from one version to another. Let's look at
> your current arrangement...client updates, server not up to date.
> Woops so much for your clients needs, they can't connect because of a
> version mismatch. Now what do you think a client wants? A server they
> cannot use? Or a server that is back up the fastest after an update? I
> can tell you from speaking with a few clients of a few GSP's in the
> industry, your competitor's see to their clients needs. Quite a few
> GSP's are updated within 20 minutes of an update.
> Why, how, you say? Because they are on top of the industry and KNOW
> how to update and when to update.
>
> Why I posted to this list and not the linux list...because I run both
> flavors on my server machines. For the record I own 4 rackmounts now
> (2 in central, 2 east). Two are winblowz2k3, two are freebsd. The main
> reason is because I replied to a post to THIS list, not the linux
> list. If you check, I post to BOTH lists. As I am sure most GSP's that
> offer their customers a CHOICE of operating systems do. Far as me not
> being a GSP. Technically I still am. I do receive a small income from
> sub-leased space on 3 of the machines. But the website is no longer up
> because I only have a handful of people that I lease to. And they have
> my personal number when they need something done during the day and my
> other contact info for all other times/emergencies. I do suggest you
> interrupt gameplay, however I would not call it "normal" gameplay for
> the fact that this time period is when vALVE is usually updating
> clients as well. I would consider this time "normal"
> update time.
>
> No notice...track records. Wednesday and Friday are traditionally
> update days. 5-6pm PST is when these updates are traditionally
> released (except for patches to updates). You know how much notice
> other companies give about updates? Almost none until you FIND the
> server update through a 3rd party notice.
>
> I remember a time when NO notice was given by vALVE for updates as
> status quo. We were not so spoiled back then, but amazingly enough
> servers still got updated. I think back to pre-steam,
> pre-hldsupdatetool and I recall thousands of servers being updated
> manually. There was no notice back then at all. I think while
> announcements are a good thing, they have made people lazy as server
> owners/operators.
>
> What really has me ticked on this point is one time so far {since
> announcements were started} an update was deployed that wasn't
> announced, and a minority start flaming valve for it. Guess when I
> found out there was an update? At 2000 hours est when I reloaded my
> steam client platform.
> When
> I remoted into my colocated/leased dedicated equipment, the batch
> files were already almost done running to update the server(s) (these
> were my winblowz machines not the linux). Granted my linux servers
> kept crashing until the patch to the update was released but it did it
> automatically.
>
> Why releasing a server engine before a client update will not
> work...Basically let's say you got the server update first. You deploy
> it too soon (because your clients cannot update their client until
> tomorrow
> night) and they cannot use their server(s) for 24 hours. That is 24
> hours their server is unusable. And the argument that we wouldn't
> deploy it until after the client update won't work either. Because
> then why would you need the server update prior to the client? It
> works good as it is now.
>
> In regards to flaws in vALVEs method of updating. I can think of far
> worse methods in use today by other mainstream software developers.
>
> To address the "incomplete testing of the major OS distributions".
> Valve tests on both windows and linux internally. They only support
> windows and linux. The other varieties of operating systems are not
tested. Why?
> Because
> for the most part they are not 100% supported because of the
> variations between each respective os. The operating systems that are
> supported work for the most part, with the rare exception. Again why
> you say? Because vALVE tests on a few types of hardware architecture
> whilst the majority have such a wide array of platform configurations
> that it is (quote me here) IMPOSSIBLE to do QC testing for every
> variation of hardware configuration as well as every variation of
> operating system. If they were to test every type of platform with
> every type of operating system configuration you would see a server
> update maybe once every two years. Which is not very good for
> business. To the people who DO complain about this I point out this
> clear fact. Are you running windows or plain jane non customized
> linux? No you say? Oh, well why are you trying to run a server on an
> operating system that isn't supported by the vendor? When engines
> don't run on a plethora of platforms most times you will find the
> platforms are running non supported software as an operating system.
> Now for the most part vALVE does try to work with these types of
> owner/operators. Just be glad they are willing to do that much. Most
> companies would point to the fact they don't support them and tell you
> to use the supported os or don't use their engine.
>
> In regards to GSP's making vALVE's business thrive...no GSP's don't
> make the business thrive. End-user clients do. And those end users run
> more listen and standalone servers from their homes then all of the
> GSP's combined.
> Being "in the business" of operating servers on two different
> supported platforms I do know what the typical flow of day to day
> operations goes like for a GSP. Far as scale and vision...don't go
> there. 10 racks full of 1u and 2u rackmount being leased enough scale?
> And the vision to deploy hl2 mod servers when cs:source was still a
> beta test enough vision? Far as under present conditions...they are
> much better then they were pre-steam, pre-hldsupdatetool. Again I
> point to my spoiled comment.
>
> Do you realize most admins/owners would shy away from this specific
> server if they had to do it "the old fashioned way" (those that do not
> know of the old update method). Be thankful for the way things work
> now. And appreciate the hard work that got things to the point that
> they are at today. I mean valve could go back to the way things were
> for a while (I think they should to teach some respect, but they
> won't) then we would see which companies
> (GSPs) know their stuff and which don't.
>
> In regards to the latter part of your last paragraph...Valves clients
> can do without you (Not targeting you specifically but the sentence
> that was posted). Many already do. You seem to think that a GSP is a
> necessary thing, it is not. In the world today, almost anyone can
> colocate or get dedicated leasing in just about every major data
> center in this country. The reason most don't is because they do not
> have the knowledge to do it. On that same token, there are far more
> home based servers out there then there are GSP servers. Far as the
> comparision to tree huggers...That analogy doesn't work.
> Because the way I see it is vALVE is the company, the GSPs that are
> whining atm are the tree huggers. My little world (no offense taken)
> encompasses two thirds of this country far as a server owner/operator.
>
> Last sentence...Accuracy and wisdom, no I saw flaming and immaturity
> bashing a company that does its BEST to deliver a quality product (no
> offense intended). To be honest, I never would have replied had the
> original post been more professional. Everyone likes constructive
> criticism, no one likes flaming (And yeah I am playing the hypocrite I
> know in this instance).
> Just
> be glad vALVE isn't EA or SoE. That is all I am going to say on the
> matter.
> Not replying further because it's Christmas and I have a family to
> celebrate it with.
>
> Sorry for the long reply. As you can see I had a lot to say on the
> subject.
>
> -StealthMode
>
>
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