Bottiger you have something you want to say about GameLiberty.com?
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:50:49 PM
Subject: hlds Digest, Vol 16, Issue 104
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? ([email protected])
2. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? (G. Hutchinson)
3. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? (Essay Tew Phaun)
4. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? (Todd Pettit)
5. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? (Todd Pettit)
6. Re: Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK? (Essay Tew Phaun)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:28:56 -0700
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID:
<CA+2UFhm6QuojMdEP_x04nCrPgD_NN=SLd=vubtesgbsybfh...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Skial is fully complaint with the policy of truth. I have to ask
whether you are familiar with the fact that a default respawn time can
mean faster than 10 second respawns, even for the blue team.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Respawn_times#Respawn_Waves
There are servers out there violating the policy of truth. We are not
one of them.
And also if you didn't already know, Todd is the owner of Game
Liberty, one of the groups caught using fake players after the first
ban.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sweet Lord. Lotusclan and Skial are doing it so are Wonkagaming.net and so is
> Battlegrounds who is coincidentally using fake clients as well and they sure
> as hell know they are in violation because they have all been de-listed for
> using fake clients. That right there is 250-300 flagrant violators. You don't
> think lotus and skial knew what they were doing when they renamed their
> plugins? Both of them have 8 sec Blue team respawns and no sv_tags. How hard
> is it to understand if you break the policy you are in violation.
>
> It is black and white if you are too lazy to learn scripting and do not check
> the effects of a plugin you purchase you are still ultimately responsible for
> your servers. So yes you should be de-listed if it was caught. They do not
> send you a warning for fake clients. Ignorance is not an excuse if you are
> incompetent.
>
> "Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like)."
> You mean they like servers which manipulate the system to gain a competitive
> advantage.
>
> If you don't know the speed limit does that excuse you from a speeding
> ticket? NO!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E. Olsen" <[email protected]>
> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:46:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
> tags OK?
>
>
> I just think people have to be careful in thinking that everything comes down
> to back & white. I'll give you a specific example:
>
> A few months ago when I had the fast respawn plugin we use re-written by a
> Sorucemod coder to insure it added the proper sv_tags, an error was
> introduced that went unnoticed for almost 6 weeks. For some reason, whatever
> the coder did (which, I have no idea, I have to pay freelancers to get these
> things done for me) somehow caused the "increased_maxplayers" tag to
> disappear when it added the "respawntimes" tag, even though my servers were
> set above 24 slots.
>
> Now, that is something I certainly did not intend to do (I didn't even think
> it was possible, as that's hard-coded into the engine), and I only happened
> to notice it when checking our servers in the browser one day. Now, as soon
> as I saw that, I contacted the coder and he found/fixed the error that caused
> it - but I certainly wasn't trying to game the system, it was an innocent
> coding error.
>
> Should everyone be aware of the rules? Sure - but unless it's something truly
> intentional and nefarious like the fake clients thing described above, then
> outright bans of servers is extreme. I agree ignorance of the law is not an
> excuse, but the last time I checked we didn't put jaywalkers in front of
> firing squads either.
>
> There needs to be a reasonable level of response to these types of things. A
> written warning with X amount of time to comply (with graduating consequences
> for non-compliance such as revoking quickplay eligibility, temporary
> delisting, followed by a perma-ban) is absolutely appropriate and acceptable.
> Those server operators that are less-tech savvy than others may someday put a
> plugin on their server that (as the example I noted above) causes unintended
> non-compliance in one or more areas, without their knowledge. A simple
> warning to these folks would go a long way towards preserving goodwill in the
> server community as a whole.
>
> Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like).
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:45:09 -0500
From: "G. Hutchinson" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
it would be pretty snazzy to see fast respawn not penalized as
severely as long as the tag was present. Someone a bit earlier back
posted a nicely written observance that summarily stated this:
If you run a community and pay it attention, have good admins, are an
enjoyable personality(s), then players will return. This is true to
life and reflects on a community as well. In the end, these
communities that put out legitimate effort prevail in the long run
and stand the test of time. Enjoy what you have knowing you did
right. Character and morality is what you do when no one is looking.
In short, don't sweat the ones who circumvent the system. The few
players that frequent those servers are a number versus an individual
and often times it turns out the majority of the numbers are bots.
Their numbers are as fake as are their honest human player count. You
would be surprised to know to what extent people go to fake stats of
every type in effort to trick folks in to playing.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:21:43 -0700
From: Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID:
<CADEyYhu113-gTkTfsFAs6L-=18wuao8zb664kzwue8bw3jm...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Maybe they should get whoever is writing those novel length blog posts to
take 10 minutes to survey some of the servers reported for fake clients.
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:29:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Pettit <[email protected]>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID: <14761796.622.1343777367389.JavaMail.Pro@Pro-PC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I am not the owner of Game Liberty and you are not compliant. I just checked
your servers and blu has a 8 second respawn for all ten deaths. You also have
been de-listed for fake clients so lets call a spade a spade, ok. Should I list
your non-compliant servers. Just cause you renamed the plugin doesn't make you
compliant.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:28:56 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK?
Skial is fully complaint with the policy of truth. I have to ask
whether you are familiar with the fact that a default respawn time can
mean faster than 10 second respawns, even for the blue team.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Respawn_times#Respawn_Waves
There are servers out there violating the policy of truth. We are not
one of them.
And also if you didn't already know, Todd is the owner of Game
Liberty, one of the groups caught using fake players after the first
ban.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sweet Lord. Lotusclan and Skial are doing it so are Wonkagaming.net and so is
> Battlegrounds who is coincidentally using fake clients as well and they sure
> as hell know they are in violation because they have all been de-listed for
> using fake clients. That right there is 250-300 flagrant violators. You don't
> think lotus and skial knew what they were doing when they renamed their
> plugins? Both of them have 8 sec Blue team respawns and no sv_tags. How hard
> is it to understand if you break the policy you are in violation.
>
> It is black and white if you are too lazy to learn scripting and do not check
> the effects of a plugin you purchase you are still ultimately responsible for
> your servers. So yes you should be de-listed if it was caught. They do not
> send you a warning for fake clients. Ignorance is not an excuse if you are
> incompetent.
>
> "Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like)."
> You mean they like servers which manipulate the system to gain a competitive
> advantage.
>
> If you don't know the speed limit does that excuse you from a speeding
> ticket? NO!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E. Olsen" <[email protected]>
> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:46:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
> tags OK?
>
>
> I just think people have to be careful in thinking that everything comes down
> to back & white. I'll give you a specific example:
>
> A few months ago when I had the fast respawn plugin we use re-written by a
> Sorucemod coder to insure it added the proper sv_tags, an error was
> introduced that went unnoticed for almost 6 weeks. For some reason, whatever
> the coder did (which, I have no idea, I have to pay freelancers to get these
> things done for me) somehow caused the "increased_maxplayers" tag to
> disappear when it added the "respawntimes" tag, even though my servers were
> set above 24 slots.
>
> Now, that is something I certainly did not intend to do (I didn't even think
> it was possible, as that's hard-coded into the engine), and I only happened
> to notice it when checking our servers in the browser one day. Now, as soon
> as I saw that, I contacted the coder and he found/fixed the error that caused
> it - but I certainly wasn't trying to game the system, it was an innocent
> coding error.
>
> Should everyone be aware of the rules? Sure - but unless it's something truly
> intentional and nefarious like the fake clients thing described above, then
> outright bans of servers is extreme. I agree ignorance of the law is not an
> excuse, but the last time I checked we didn't put jaywalkers in front of
> firing squads either.
>
> There needs to be a reasonable level of response to these types of things. A
> written warning with X amount of time to comply (with graduating consequences
> for non-compliance such as revoking quickplay eligibility, temporary
> delisting, followed by a perma-ban) is absolutely appropriate and acceptable.
> Those server operators that are less-tech savvy than others may someday put a
> plugin on their server that (as the example I noted above) causes unintended
> non-compliance in one or more areas, without their knowledge. A simple
> warning to these folks would go a long way towards preserving goodwill in the
> server community as a whole.
>
> Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like).
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:48:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Pettit <[email protected]>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID: <7246313.707.1343778506410.JavaMail.Pro@Pro-PC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Bottiger you lie. Brian Simon you lie too.
It does mean that it can be less than 10 seconds sure. But I just took a blu
character and died 40x in a row on one of your empty servers and then on Lotus
where it should not be less than 10 seconds. Guess what 40x in a row, 8 second
respawn. You can lie all you want but is blatantly obvious and you should be
delisted. You and lotus both. Neither of you has modified your sv_tags. Stick
with the lie just like you did with fake clients and bot pings.
Lemme ask the honest server admins here what are the chances of the blu respawn
time being 8 seconds 40x in a row? Call out these hacks.
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:28:56 PM
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
tags OK?
Skial is fully complaint with the policy of truth. I have to ask
whether you are familiar with the fact that a default respawn time can
mean faster than 10 second respawns, even for the blue team.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Respawn_times#Respawn_Waves
There are servers out there violating the policy of truth. We are not
one of them.
And also if you didn't already know, Todd is the owner of Game
Liberty, one of the groups caught using fake players after the first
ban.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Todd Pettit <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sweet Lord. Lotusclan and Skial are doing it so are Wonkagaming.net and so is
> Battlegrounds who is coincidentally using fake clients as well and they sure
> as hell know they are in violation because they have all been de-listed for
> using fake clients. That right there is 250-300 flagrant violators. You don't
> think lotus and skial knew what they were doing when they renamed their
> plugins? Both of them have 8 sec Blue team respawns and no sv_tags. How hard
> is it to understand if you break the policy you are in violation.
>
> It is black and white if you are too lazy to learn scripting and do not check
> the effects of a plugin you purchase you are still ultimately responsible for
> your servers. So yes you should be de-listed if it was caught. They do not
> send you a warning for fake clients. Ignorance is not an excuse if you are
> incompetent.
>
> "Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like)."
> You mean they like servers which manipulate the system to gain a competitive
> advantage.
>
> If you don't know the speed limit does that excuse you from a speeding
> ticket? NO!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E. Olsen" <[email protected]>
> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 4:46:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn without
> tags OK?
>
>
> I just think people have to be careful in thinking that everything comes down
> to back & white. I'll give you a specific example:
>
> A few months ago when I had the fast respawn plugin we use re-written by a
> Sorucemod coder to insure it added the proper sv_tags, an error was
> introduced that went unnoticed for almost 6 weeks. For some reason, whatever
> the coder did (which, I have no idea, I have to pay freelancers to get these
> things done for me) somehow caused the "increased_maxplayers" tag to
> disappear when it added the "respawntimes" tag, even though my servers were
> set above 24 slots.
>
> Now, that is something I certainly did not intend to do (I didn't even think
> it was possible, as that's hard-coded into the engine), and I only happened
> to notice it when checking our servers in the browser one day. Now, as soon
> as I saw that, I contacted the coder and he found/fixed the error that caused
> it - but I certainly wasn't trying to game the system, it was an innocent
> coding error.
>
> Should everyone be aware of the rules? Sure - but unless it's something truly
> intentional and nefarious like the fake clients thing described above, then
> outright bans of servers is extreme. I agree ignorance of the law is not an
> excuse, but the last time I checked we didn't put jaywalkers in front of
> firing squads either.
>
> There needs to be a reasonable level of response to these types of things. A
> written warning with X amount of time to comply (with graduating consequences
> for non-compliance such as revoking quickplay eligibility, temporary
> delisting, followed by a perma-ban) is absolutely appropriate and acceptable.
> Those server operators that are less-tech savvy than others may someday put a
> plugin on their server that (as the example I noted above) causes unintended
> non-compliance in one or more areas, without their knowledge. A simple
> warning to these folks would go a long way towards preserving goodwill in the
> server community as a whole.
>
> Luckily - cooler heads usually prevail with the TF2 team, and they have the
> added benefit of seeing the big picture (and all the underlying player-data
> that denotes which servers players like).
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:50:47 -0700
From: Essay Tew Phaun <[email protected]>
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Policy of Truth Still in effect? Fast Respawn
without tags OK?
Message-ID:
<CADEyYhsf-=4asb8swb9epfha_j_rllm1cc6y5js+twdmhnv...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well, I'm too good to die 40 times in a row, so there would be no way for
me to figure out.
:)
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