Yeah - this is a mailing list for issues affecting server operators, so it seems like the right place to me. Furthermore, it's not unreasonable for Valve to at least communicate to us their intention(s) down the road as far as quickplay goes.
Many a server operator on this list has "been there" for Valve when they asked us to step up and support this or that for the game (to include augmenting their infrastructure when they didn't have enough server to support the playerbase). When you apply a "blanket punishment" to everyone in ANY group when only a small majority were responsible for the actions you are applying that punishment for, then of course the innocent affected are going to continue to ask when they will have that "unjust" punishment lifted. I haven't asking anything unreasonable here. The fact is, there has been ZERO communication from the TF2 regarding this issue since they threw community servers out in the cold. There's no reason for there to be an "adversarial" attitude towards all server operators simply because there were a few bad apples that needed to be eliminated. Hosting TF2 should be a partnership between Valve and the rest of us that have been here for them since day one. There are communities out there that have gone to great strides over the years in hosting events, tournaments, mapping contests, and creating content for the game that certainly don't deserve to be ignored like this. The TF2 team used to go to great lengths to keep us in the loop. Again, this is not and should not ever be "us against them". We could be helping them make TF2 a better game, while still building the diversity that made it great in the first place.....but there's no way for us to do that if we continue to be left out in the cold. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 7:33 PM, James Haikin <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no > indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate > for the discussion to be taking place. > > -James > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]>wrote: > >> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my" >> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled >> straight from Steam. >> >> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything >> better to do? >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an >>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be greeeeeat. >>> >>> -James >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them >>>> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers >>>> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer. >>>> >>>> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite >>>> server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2 >>>> than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and >>>> griefers. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more >>>>> players to magically appear. >>>>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be >>>>> getting smaller with time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't >>>>>>>> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer >>>>>>>> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last >>>>>>>> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. >>>>>>>> How >>>>>>>> much more obvious does it need to get? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2014 >>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2013 >>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> data from steamcharts.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason >>>>>>>>> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 >>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>> in the game. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on >>>>>>>>> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick around >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of >>>>>>>>> servers, >>>>>>>>> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with >>>>>>>>> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the >>>>>>>>> chaos and >>>>>>>>> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the >>>>>>>>> game >>>>>>>>> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to >>>>>>>>> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community >>>>>>>>> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork >>>>>>>>> - and >>>>>>>>> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own >>>>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests >>>>>>>>> with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience >>>>>>>>> overall (not to mention higher skill levels). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few >>>>>>>>> hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and >>>>>>>>> allow them >>>>>>>>> to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now >>>>>>>>> lets >>>>>>>>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito >>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve. >>>>>>>>>> Since the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity >>>>>>>>>> on my >>>>>>>>>> servers thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the >>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>> to find my servers. >>>>>>>>>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit >>>>>>>>>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY". >>>>>>>>>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help >>>>>>>>>> reinforce this bad change for all server ops. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers >>>>>>>>>>> only option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People >>>>>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>>>>> lazy to use the browser are too lazy to use options. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the >>>>>>>>>>> official servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that >>>>>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>>>>> manual intervention will not solve the problem. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer >>>>>>>>>>> you to this post. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg74795.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What about something similar like before where valve servers >>>>>>>>>>>> had an advantage over community servers with new players being >>>>>>>>>>>> sent to them >>>>>>>>>>>> (due to the valve server score boost)? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to >>>>>>>>>>>> valve servers by default. And then after a certain amount of hours >>>>>>>>>>>> played >>>>>>>>>>>> it either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if >>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>> servers should be included and explaining a little bit about the >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> quickplay options and how to access them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I talked to plenty of players who weren't aware that quickplay >>>>>>>>>>>> search can be customized or that you need to click on the gear >>>>>>>>>>>> icon to >>>>>>>>>>>> bring up advanced search options. There's plenty of people who >>>>>>>>>>>> hate crits >>>>>>>>>>>> or default respawn times and yet they're not even aware of this >>>>>>>>>>>> functionality being part of quickplay. Or perhaps that's on >>>>>>>>>>>> purpose and >>>>>>>>>>>> maybe that's the reason why the icon is so tiny... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Jason Tango < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As we approach the 2-month mark since Valve's servers were >>>>>>>>>>>>> made the "default" servers for all quickplay players, can the TF2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> team give >>>>>>>>>>>>> us a time frame when they will return the system to a "level >>>>>>>>>>>>> playing field" >>>>>>>>>>>>> for all servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As it stands, the players who want to avoid all community >>>>>>>>>>>>> servers now have the ability to do so simply by clicking the >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Official >>>>>>>>>>>>> Server Only" button, so is it really necessary to keep driving >>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly all >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickplay traffic away from community servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, a better question would probably be - is it in TF2's >>>>>>>>>>>>> best (long-term) interest to do so? Helping players find a "home" >>>>>>>>>>>>> server >>>>>>>>>>>>> where they become a "regular" creates long-term players, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> since so much >>>>>>>>>>>>> emphasis (in the design of the UI) has been placed on guiding >>>>>>>>>>>>> players to >>>>>>>>>>>>> use quickplay, the longer that community servers are effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>> excluded >>>>>>>>>>>>> from that traffic, the more long-term players the game will >>>>>>>>>>>>> likely lose. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The players that only want random games with random people on >>>>>>>>>>>>> Valve servers now have the option to make sure that's all they >>>>>>>>>>>>> get, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> preventing the rest of the player base from experiencing all the >>>>>>>>>>>>> diversity >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the TF2 community can provide is both unnecessary and unfair >>>>>>>>>>>>> to those >>>>>>>>>>>>> of us who have never broken any rules, or violated any policies. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With that in mind, please consider leveling the playing field >>>>>>>>>>>>> again asap by including all community servers by default, and let >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> players decide for themselves if they don't want to be a part of >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, guys. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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