This mailing list is for bugfixes and technical support, not for
politics and drama.
-James
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this.
This quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing
list for servers that is visited by the people responsible for
this change.
If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of
a reason to keep talking about it.
I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a
problem. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making
quickpick.
They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and
quickplay options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve
has shown no indication of changing, in a place where it's
rather patently inappropriate for the discussion to be taking
place.
-James
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
"Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought
were "my" players, as if I had tens of thousands of
players. Those numbers are pulled straight from Steam.
What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you
have anything better to do?
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go
ahead and get us an actual cross-section of the
playerbase, that'd be greeeeeat.
-James
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
It might not cause more players to magically
appear, but more of them will end up in better
servers than the official ones. Community servers
offer additional value that keep people playing
TF2 longer.
I know quite a few people who have stopped playing
after their favorite server emptied out because of
this change. They would rather not play TF2 than
play on an official server which are laggy and
full of hackers and griefers.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it
"fixed", won't cause more players to magically
appear.
TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the
playerbase will only be getting smaller with time.
On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Those aren't "my" player counts, those are
the global player counts.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James
Haikin <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
-James
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM,
Robert Paulson <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
When will Valve realize was a bad
decision? Player counts haven't
been this low since last year, and
there is no new FPS game.
For those people claiming player
counts get lower until summer
vacation, they didn't drop as much
as last year.
After the change, the weekly high
dropped by 5000. Compare to last
year in the same time frame there
is barely a 1000 player
difference. How much more obvious
does it need to get?
2014
http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
2013
http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
data from steamcharts.com
<http://steamcharts.com>
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM,
E. Olsen <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I think the issue here,
is...there really is no longer
any reason for valve servers
to be the "default" servers
once a player has 8-12 hours
in the game.
The minority of players who
only want those random pub
games on valve servers now
have that option - but the
players who stick around in
the long-term will be the ones
that find a "home"
server/group of servers, not
those looking for the "x-box
live" experience of random
games with random people every
time. Honestly, if the TF2
team could see the chaos and
lack of teamwork that valve
servers actually seem to
encourage, I think they would
take a step back and realize
that it really doesn't do the
game any justice. There is a
reason some of the newer
players have taken to calling
community servers "pubstomp"
servers - it's because
community servers are where
they fist come up against
actual, cohesive teamwork -
and they're used to a bunch of
random players just doing
they're own thing.
Frankly - I firmly believe the
long-term health of the game
rests with community servers
who provide diversity,
supervision (to get rid of the
plethora of hackers/griefers,
etc.), and a much better
experience overall (not to
mention higher skill levels).
In short - I agree with Mr.
Paulson - give the new players
a a few hours of "mandatory"
play on valve's servers to get
their feet wet in the game,
and then open quickplay up to
"all servers" by default and
allow them to see all the
diversity that's out there.
You've given the players the
"option" of going back to
"valve-only" if they should
want it, now lets rollback the
"mass punishment" (that was
really killing a mosquito with
a sledgehammer), and give the
server operators a fair shake
again.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14
PM, Chris Oryschak
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
It would be really nice to
get some input on this
from Valve. Since the
change every day gets
worse and worse for player
activity on my servers
thanks to the QP changes
and lack of new players
having the ability to find
my servers.
You can view the beautiful
downward trend caused by
these changes:
http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
If anyone else is running
the Player Analytics
plugin just edit
"data/sessions.php" and
change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
I'd love to see the same
trends from other
communities to help
reinforce this bad change
for all server ops.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at
9:09 PM, Robert Paulson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
As I said before, the
problem is not that
the official servers
only option exists,
the problem is that it
is on by default.
People too lazy to use
the browser are too
lazy to use options.
Again I would like to
suggest automatically
un-checking the
official servers only
after 4-5 hours of
play. Anything that
requires manual
intervention will not
solve the problem.
For anyone arguing
community servers are
inferior again, I
refer you to this post.
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg74795.html
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014
at 5:03 PM, 1nsane
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
What about
something similar
like before where
valve servers had
an advantage over
community servers
with new players
being sent to them
(due to the valve
server score boost)?
Except this time
just make it so
all new players
get sent to valve
servers by
default. And then
after a certain
amount of hours
played it either
defaults to all
servers or pops up
a message asking
if community
servers should be
included and
explaining a
little bit about
the other
quickplay options
and how to access
them.
I talked to plenty
of players who
weren't aware that
quickplay search
can be customized
or that you need
to click on the
gear icon to bring
up advanced search
options. There's
plenty of people
who hate crits or
default respawn
times and yet
they're not even
aware of this
functionality
being part of
quickplay. Or
perhaps that's on
purpose and maybe
that's the reason
why the icon is so
tiny...
On Thu, Mar 20,
2014 at 7:31 PM,
Jason Tango
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
As we approach
the 2-month
mark since
Valve's
servers were
made the
"default"
servers for
all quickplay
players, can
the TF2 team
give us a time
frame when
they will
return the
system to a
"level playing
field" for all
servers?
As it stands,
the players
who want to
avoid all
community
servers now
have the
ability to do
so simply by
clicking the
"Official
Server Only"
button, so is
it really
necessary to
keep driving
nearly all
quickplay
traffic away
from community
servers?
In fact, a
better
question would
probably be -
is it in TF2's
best
(long-term)
interest to do
so? Helping
players find a
"home" server
where they
become a
"regular"
creates
long-term
players, and
since so much
emphasis (in
the design of
the UI) has
been placed on
guiding
players to use
quickplay, the
longer that
community
servers are
effectively
excluded from
that traffic,
the more
long-term
players the
game will
likely lose.
The players
that only want
random games
with random
people on
Valve servers
now have the
option to make
sure that's
all they get,
but preventing
the rest of
the player
base from
experiencing
all the
diversity that
the TF2
community can
provide is
both
unnecessary
and unfair to
those of us
who have never
broken any
rules, or
violated any
policies.
With that in
mind, please
consider
leveling the
playing field
again asap by
including all
community
servers by
default, and
let the
players decide
for themselves
if they don't
want to be a
part of that
community.
Thanks, guys.
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