From: "Kevin J. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael Ressen wrote:
-----Original Message----- -> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> From: "muldy" -> -> We all know VALVe and Microsoft sleep on the same bed, -> Microsoft wants OpenGL out of the way to impose (one more!) -> the DirectX Api. -> -> OpenGL is portable, DirectX is not! Don't even talk -> about WineX, Why emulate clients if you can make a client -> for other platforms? -> -> VALVe has got an excellent game on it's hands, and does -> not need to team up with Microsoft or any other major company(ATI?). -> Microsoft & VALVe will chose the requirements for -> playing Half-Life from now on...
Which is why HL2, and all it's mods will become single-player FPS games, or small LAN games run in the confines of home. I agree, I'm waiting for the day when the end will come, and it will given the choices made by Valve. I really wish I am wrong, but it doesn't look that way. Money is made from the sale of client copies, and that will be the focus. MS and Valve will bank on the fact that people will run Windows clients and connect to Windows servers.
One of the driving factors for the popularity of HL so far has been the proliferation of servers available to play on, and all of the assistance available to would-be server operators. It's no fun trying to play an online FPS when you can't find a decent server to play on. For example, I have a ton of people pleading with me to open up a Nascar Thunder 2004 server on one of my OC3 links. Unfortunately, this will not happen unless EA releases a unix dedicated server. Because I, like many of you, provide game servers as a service and not a commercial entity, I have no recoup of my costs in operation. Those of you who do run commercial services have to worry about your solvency. Running Windows servers is not economically feasable. It's simple math:
Windows 2003 Server, 5 license = $995.00 X 5 servers = $4975.00
FreeBSD 5.1 (my personal choice), unlimited = $0.00 X 5 servers = $0.00
Now apply those figures to a commercial entity with 100 servers, then factor in the additional management to do monthly hotfixes or service packs, and the downtime involved.
Since those of you who do run commercially know the slim margins you're on now, can you afford to amortize in the costs of the OS as well, yet realize a profit during the lifespan of the game?
So the OpenGL/D3D argument is really a moot issue here. It doesn't matter what method of rendering is used, if there aren't servers for the client to connect to, the networked game is dead.
/BA Michiganburbs.com
I dont quite understand your point? what makes you think that games will stop making linux servers? Valve certainly will not stop linux server development, and pretty much any *popular* game that has even remotely intelligent developers will have one as well. for example EA/Dice finally got around to making a battlefield linux server.
pretty much everything you just said is complaining about an irrelevant, non issue in a vacuum? or am I missing something?
kev
Awww, Kevin... Of all ppl on this list I figured you would totally understand what I was talking about! Well, maybe I'm not that clear, so I apologize for that.
My reply to Muldy was geared around his last statement: "Microsoft & VALVe will chose the requirements for playing Half-Life from now on..." What I meant by my reply is the fact that any really popular gaming platform does have a dedicated server platform to run on multiple OS bases. With MS and Valve, it seems the focus has been working it's way toward a Windows-optimized, or eventual Windows-only system.
Although I have pretty much given up on Valve delivering a viable product (I am still on 3.1.1.0c), there are a few signs of a directional shift toward MS products:
1. We've all agreed the binaries we have been given in the last 6-9 months are performing better on Windows machines, and the linux binaries have become CPU hogs, leaving many on this list frustrated and in wonder of why more hasn't been done. Granted, Alfred has told us the problem is in the compiler, as they have not seen any improvements in using different ones, but I read every post on this list, and I have seen people offer to help, make suggestions, etc, that could lead to a better linux product. I question why these offers have been dismissed, and if the code is compiled properly, why are the Win binaries performing so much better on the same hardware?
2. Microsoft's oversight of Valve, due to financial involvement is going to mean an excertion of influence to make the Windows product more appealing to consumers. Linux is competition to MS; an ever-growing cut into their bottom line. MS is not going to be party to a product that promotes Linux as superior, or even on-par with their OS platforms. The shareholders and dollars rule in this realm.
3. The topic that sparked this original thread, about the push toward D3D rendering for the new platforms is a key sign. Anything that can drive new business, or secure existing business will be a MS tactic. That's not exclusive to them, though...It's common business sense.
I do grant you the fact that any popular game platform does have a linux/unix dedicated server, however DICE appointed Andreas to the BF1942 linux project because there was a call for it, and it did not conflict with their business - it only served to enhance it. EA had nothing to do with that, so I don't count on EA releasing any other linux based dedicated servers for their other games.
While Valve may benefit from having both a linux and Win server binary, MS does not, and it goes against their business strategy. They'll take what they can get, push as many to Windows as possible, and accept the fact that some will choose not to follow. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if someone can show me an example of a MS game that had a dedicated server ported to unix....Well, you can't, because there isn't one. Even their widely anticipated Halo2 is Win only. We're a minority in the eyes of those in charge now, and we need to accept that and find alternatives if we wish to continue to provide gaming services.
/BA Michiganburbs.com
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