This is a non AMD-flame reply ;) Our first 7 2U dual processor boxes we purchased about 28 months ago were in the AMX 1500-1800xp series. We have only 2 left in gaming production, 2 are in development only mode (because of instability), 3 are just flat out dead. Same story as your's Chris. We've swapped out more CPU's then I care to count.
Don't get me wrong -- what we spent on the AMD's at the time were substantially cheaper then what we could get for the same performance out of Intel. We couldn't afford the extra 400-600$ per box it would have cost us then. So, they did their job and got us going. But stacking AMD's just didn't work out for us in the long run. Some 30+ more boxes later, we are running predominantly 2U (with some recent 1U) XEON based servers. We stuck with 2U because we were initially still paranoid about heat. The 1U's have some pretty damn cool ventilation and cooling systems though, they seem to be running just fine racked. A comment about the AMD lovers. I personally (imho) think the AMD fanatics are like the Linux fanatics that are bound to reply. Something new, something on the edge, something rebelious. The Intel boxes have yet to have anything more serious then bad hard-disks in this last year. I will be sticking with the Intel's. They cost us about $400 more now, but we also went back to SCSI (and soon moving to ATA though). I am sure with ATA we will get the pricing down $200 more. Last comment regarding general server industry addiction to AMD. Netfire (and hence your GD, GR, formerly AOWC though I understand they are migrating off netfire), XGS and a host of others -- many of them lease their hardware (to own) from Netfire. In our occasional past courting with them, all they ever pressed on us was the AMD. I imagine they adopted AMD early on because of the price benefit and the general rule of business when you are dealing with a lot of hardware (or software, or widgets, or...). Stick with what you know. I understand, you CAN get intel with them - but all they ever talked about was AMD this and that. -Weaver PHXX.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Meisinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dual Xeons or 2 P4? > > Maybe so, but they also accomplish the same performance at lower clock > >speeds. > > > >-Simon > > This has nothing to do with a server application. For a server, you want > it to run as cool as possible, and in todays 1u applications, case space > comes at a premium. Less fans means more room for HD's, Gig-E cards and the > like. Let us also not forget what one of the main enemies of solid state > electronics is. HEAT. Heat speeds up the degradation process and is the > primary factor in electronics failures. Don't believe me? Take the Fan off > of your AMD and see what happens. Yeah, that smoke is a direct result of > things getting to hot. How do you think the capacitors and diodes on the > motherboard react to the elevated ambient temperatures over a long period of > time? > > I know I still have PIII-500's humming away in a datacenter that are almost > 5 years old now, and they're running fine. AMD didn't even launch the > Duron/T-bird series until (late?)2000, and the first year or so was spent > mostly exchanging processors for ones that didn't have crushed cores. Intel > has proven the test of time. Not saying today's AMD's won't or can't, but > they just haven't been around long enough yet. > > So yes, while they "accomplish the same feats at the same clock speed", they > do it at the cost of added thermal energy. As someone who's helped to run a > very large datacenter, I can tell you that the difference in temperature > between an Intel and an AMD might not seem like a lot, until you've got 800 > of those machines. > > Also, Xeons aren't really that expensive anymore. Go check Pricewatch and > do some comparisons. Intel is really pushing Itanium as its die-hard server > solution, and Xeons are at a mid-point performance wise, with the price > reflecting that. I can build a Dual Xeon 3.06 Ghz (Hyperthreaded, of > course) server for cheaper than I can buy a Single AMD Opteron 248. (Dual > Xeons + mobo cost between 900-1100 dollars depending on mobo, Single Opteron > + Mobo costs between 1200-1400 dollars depending on the motherboard) Yeah, > go look for yourself, Xeons are cheaper. > > AMD might have something with Opteron, but right now, it's really too early > to tell. Most Linux distros don't take advantage of it, and 99% of your > standard binaries and utilities aren't compiled with support for it either. > So running an Opteron is more for coolness factor than anything else. You > can talk about "What's coming out next week/month/year" all you want, but > the fact is, its not here yet. There might be some marginal gains to be had > with running an Opteron, but nothing awesome. This could change with time, > but only time will tell. =) > > AMD has some good ideas, and some cool applications, but for right now, in > my opinion, the only way to go for server applications like what we're doing > with HLDS is Intel. Hyperthreading is VERY cool on a Linux based HL server. > Like when I can watch top, and I can see my gameservers bouncing between 4 > cpu's and other tasks being offloaded on the fly, not having to wait, or > fight for CPU time, this makes me and my players happy. > > I firmly expect to see the AMD fanboys riled up and give me 23432432 > different reasons as to why AMD is better because they read on xxx review > site that it just is, but I've run both platforms, and seen the difference > for myself. Given the choice between processor x, which is less expensive, > has proven track record spanning years of reliability and is fully supported > by an OS I put on it, or Processor Y that is slightly more expensive, about > as fast as the other processor, runs hotter, and doesn't have ANY extensive > datacenter testing yet, I know which one I'd go with. > > > My .02. > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
