Honestly I think the whole HL2Studio ordeal was one big fake. /ScarT
2009/6/7 Brandished <[email protected]> > > Heh, the infamous HL2Studio. That was apparently sold off to "someone", > there aren't many details on what happened to it. > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=HL2Studio&oldid=18823 > > Also, what's with all this talk about _not_ "dumbing down" (ie: > simplifying) the editor silliness? I could see the argument if simplifying > an editor came at the cost of losing features and the level of > customization, but that wasn't really stated or implied. "133t m...@pp3r" > syndrome is the main reason I stopped visiting FPSB (along with the loads of > malicious java/flash exploits that seem to keep showing up there). A level > editor exists to "dumb down" the process of making maps to begin with by > design. I don't hate math, but I still would not enjoy plotting out all the > 3D coordinates for a level's geometry using a pencil, a sheet of paper, and > an abacus. > > I always considered the point of a level editor to be making levels, not > weeding out the "unworthy". I think the biggest challenge in making a map > should be mainly coming up with a great idea on paper or in your head; > something that would be enjoyable to play through, something that isn't a > complete carbon copy of what already exists, and something that will work > well with a game's design and the game engine's limitations in mind, not > translating that idea into something playable. I don't think I've ever > played a game and thought, "Geez, I sure wish this game had less levels, > there's just way too many, I'll never be able to finish it". Time is enough > of a limiting factor when it comes down to level design as it is, regardless > of the tool used. Many major game studios nowadays have at least 3 people > that work on a single level to begin with, one that shapes and lays out the > geometry, another that handles the scripted sequences and entity IO, and > another that handles the texture work / lighting / art. > > Lets leave weeding out the "unworthy maps/mappers" to the players, if you > completely ignore what they would like to see in a map, you risk them > ignoring what you make, regardless of how much effort goes into it. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Tobias Kammersgaard <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Mapping <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:58:49 PM > Subject: Re: [hlmappers] Source Engine/Hammer Size maximum size > > Is there any chance I could see this editor you're working on? I remember > there was an entry on the VDC ages ago about another editor. I think it was > called HLEditor or something like that. The GUI pretty much just looked > like > XSI with some green colors upon it. > The maximum sizes for a map in Hammer (and in Source?) is -16384, > 16384 (found in base.fgd) > > > /ScarT > > > 2009/6/6 Alex Guichet <[email protected]> > > > O_O > > > > No. Not dumbed down at all. You took it completely wrong. I want to make > a > > new set of more powerful tools to make it easier for designers to have a > > higher amount (and consequently easier) of control of their map design. I > > plan to have the ability to do everything you can currently do in hammer > in > > my editor. But I mean, have you seen the CryEngine sandbox editor or even > > UnrealEd? There is a learning curve for all of them, but each of them > have > > their own tools that make those editors so great. CryEngine is amazing > with > > displacements. UnrealEd is nearly perfect (acoording to some). I find > that > > hammer, while indeed powerful, does pale in comparison for designers to > > those editors. I (and other designers) have found that it is much easier > to > > make better things in those editors much easier. > > > > I am in NO WAY going to dumb down this editor whatsoever. If you actually > > read my last message, I didn't mention a single thing about dumbing down > > the > > editor... I only mentioned "much more powerful editor with easier to use > > tools". All of my tools will still have extremely high levels of > > configurability, and you can still do everything the old way. I'm not > > cutting out any features at all. > > > > By the way, I'm working on this editor with several other WELL > ESTABLISHED > > map makers of the HL community (one who does have a published community > > map), and they're passing their thoughts off to me that they think would > > make an editor better. Everyone has their own complaints for hammer, and > > I'm > > trying to fix it. I'm NOT trying to make a "beginner's" map editor by any > > means. > > > > Alex Guichet > > > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Mike Zimmermann <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > (Redirected by <[email protected]>) > > > > > > > > > > > > So you really just want a dumbed down version of Hammer with drag and > > drop, > > > easy peezy look like shitty? The high level of control of Hammer is > what > > > makes it so appealing and easy to use. Sure it has a huge learning > curve > > > but > > > if someone *really* wants to make a map for a HL game, they will learn > > it. > > > I > > > consider it to be weeding out the weak. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Alex Guichet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well basically I feel that hammer is not a good map editor for > > > designers... > > > > Hammer, in my opinion, is more suited for programmers. So we're > working > > > > with > > > > tools designed for "programmer art". I think that if there is a much > > more > > > > powerful editor with easier to use tools (don't say it's not > possible) > > > than > > > > I have a feeling that the quality of maps will skyrocket. And maps > are > > > > pretty good now. I have a lot of map maker friends (one who has a > > > published > > > > community map on TF2) that say Hammer doesn't get the job done in > terms > > > of > > > > design. > > > > I'm not really talking about major major changes yet, but some basic > > > > additions are: > > > > 1) Multi user map design. (More than one editor working on a map at > the > > > > same > > > > time, be able to watch changes in (close to) real time > > > > 2) Preprogrammed (and editable) entity tools for maps... stuff like > > drag > > > > and > > > > drop train tracks... click to place CP's... etc. Really just to make > it > > > > easier for designer. > > > > 3) Drag and Drop everything. Drag and drop a model on to the ground, > > drag > > > a > > > > texture onto a wall, etc. > > > > 4) Better Model and Texture browsers. Tagging. Tag all of the > skyboxes, > > > > custom textures, walls, tf textures, anything you want. Works for > both > > > > models and textures (at the moment). > > > > > > > > Anything else I should add? I'm only working on community feedback > for > > > what > > > > should go into this editor. I consider everything. > > > > > > > > Alex Guichet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Brandished <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > (Redirected by <[email protected]>) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait, what do you mean by "make a DESIGNER"? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, late reply, I know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > > > From: Alex Guichet <[email protected]> > > > > > To: Discussion of Half-Life Mapping < > > [email protected]> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:00:37 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlmappers] Source Engine/Hammer Size maximum size > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. This is really helping. > > > > > I'm trying to oriented source engine mapping solution by > > > > > reverse engineering the VMF file (of sorts)... so far I've got some > > > > simple > > > > > brushwork going... I just want to have warnings that will let a > > > designer > > > > > know when they're hitting a limit (if it's even necessary). > > > > > > > > > > So far this is great help. Anything you map makers want that you > > think > > > is > > > > > crap or needs to be changed in hammer? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlmappers
