On 09/21/2011 04:19 PM, Ray Hunter wrote: > Thanks very much for producing this draft. > > I realise the WG is in a hurry, but I think there's some fundamental > issues to solve here on sharpening up requirements if the architecture > is going to last more than a couple of years. I really miss a > discussion on requirements. > > I'm probably going to push forward some things you'll say are not > typical user requirements and will therefore push back. That's > healthy, and we should be very clear about the problem homenet is > trying to solve, and what is, and what is not in scope. > > If I think of my own house network, I don't think it fits in any of > the scenarios in the document today in terms of complexity. That's a > bit scary. I have IPv4 from one provider, IPv6 from another, DMZ's for > inbound services, multiple firewalls, wireless extenders...... being > honest, would your home network fit in with any of the architecture > pictures? Or is this wishful thinking of what you think your parents / > friends could realistically manage? > > Some major trends in home networking have been hidden from view of the > network providers and network equipment prociders, (and perhaps the > IETF too) by large scale use of NAT. If you want to get rid of NAT > you're going to have to address the following IMVHO. The focus has > been largely on the number of devices (address depletion), but the > real challenge is likely to be complexity of requirements (IP becomes > ubiquitous). > > 1) I contend that multi-homing is probably going to become the "norm" > in Europe by 2022, due to The European Electricity and Gas Directive. > That corresponds at least to picture 4, if not more. > > But that picture seems to presume a single isolation LAN to connect > two ISP providers of equal worth. I think that reachability, and cost, > and the services provided by the various networks, may be radically > different. One may be your entertainment ISP. Another your telephony > ISP. Another your electricity provider ISP. Your car may connect to > the electricity network ISP to register charging. Your phone may > connect to 4G whilst not at home and then to WiFi whilst you are at > home, and to hard wired cable when it is connected to its charger. Or > perhaps to homenet for controlling the lights and the 4G for voice > calls.... > > We should be clear about what (if any) interaction, provider > preference / selection, and fall back scenarios will be implemented as > part of the homenet providing an ISP selection function; or whether > the service providers should be seen as providing 3 or more logically > separate home networks, and where the end device itself has to chose > the outbound path independently of the ISP's and homenet(s) routing. > > 2) Wireless is exploding. I contend that the single layer LAN in the > picture is a non-starter. There is almost certainly going to be at > least two short range radio system technologies in home networks: one > wifi and one LoWPAN type network for device control. There may be more > technologies given the rate electronics is moving at the moment e.g. > NFC, networking via LED lighting. So there may also be a requirement > for interconnection of multiple ultra-short range networks via a house > backbone: e.g. lights on top floor pool to form a mesh network, and > lights in the basement form a mesh network, but the reinforced > concrete floor partitions the two wireless meshes, so you need a > routed connection between them. The various radio and lightwave > standards are unlikely to be L2 bridgeable IMHO. That may add another > layer of routing to your picture.
Bridging a gigabit ethernet and even today's wireless is asking for tremendous trouble; a tiny amount of multicast on ethernet can already ruin your whole day on wireless (since it is transmitted at 1Mbit). And some of the future wireless technology puts the disparity of bandwidth even higher. Many home routers now have 2 radios (2.4 and 5ghz) and guest networks are also the "norm". So we're already at 6 networks in a single home router box (wan, local ethernet, [email protected], 802.11@5, [email protected], 802.11guest@5ghz), and need also a DMZ network, much less dealing with VPN's, and more complex home network topologiesk. This message brought to you via a home router which routes, not bridges, these networks. More about this topic next week.... - Jim > > 3) Virtual machines are exploding. I run 4 VM's on my workstation. > With the various upcoming application stores and multiple application > developers running on one system, I could easily imagine that each > application eventually runs in its own mini-VM, so each IPv6 host > becomes the equivalent of an old style mainframe with multiple > prefixes and intra-machine routing. That may add another layer of > routing to your picture. There may also be virtual firewalls between > those VM's, which adds another layer. > > 4) IPv4 NAT allows limitless layers of stacking of networks (for > outbound connectivity at least) I think stackable devices are going to > be important. Why buy a whole new device to support a new wireless > technology or WAN technology, rather than just an adapter? > > I submit that a more suitable generic architecture picture for homenet > would therefore be multiple trees of indeterminate depth of stacked > devices, with the ISP router forming the root of each tree network and > IPvs end nodes the leaves. This would obviously have major > consequences for the requirements of prefix delegation, routing > protocol selection etc. You can also argue whether these trees should > interact in any intelligent way, or whether the end nodes should be > individually multi-homed to several independent trees and thus have to > provide any intelligence for ISP selection themselves. > > Hope this gets the ball rolling, resulting in an architecture with an > extended lifespan. > > regards, > RayH >> Subject: >> [homenet] draft-chown-homenet-arch-00.txt >> From: >> Tim Chown <[email protected]> >> Date: >> Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:27:22 +0100 >> >> To: >> [email protected] >> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: >> quoted-printable >> Precedence: >> list >> MIME-Version: >> 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) >> References: >> <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> >> In-Reply-To: >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: >> <EMEW3|507144591d242f9fb36239f554f547a1n8KDRS03tjc|ecs.soton.ac.uk|[email protected]> >> >> Content-Type: >> text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Message: >> 1 >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I have been working with Jari, Jason and Ole to produce a new version of the >> homenet architecture draft. Mark, who produced the first version with Jari, >> is now of course WG chair and has stepped down as editor of the text. >> >> The structure of the draft remains similar. We have expanded section 2 on >> IPv6 implications for home networking, added a couple of extra models in >> section 3, expanded the principle section and also added a considerations >> section where we discuss certain topics that may (or may not) be deemed in >> scope for the text. >> >> Feedback is of course welcome, indeed required! >> >> I don't know whether Mark and Ray will call for WG adoption at this stage. >> The charter targets a WG draft by the end of September, but this is also a >> document that I hope will have some additional revisions from your feedback >> before the interim meeting. >> >> There are some acknowledgements to be added; these will be included in the >> next version. >> >> Tim >> >> On 21 Sep 2011, at 12:37, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> > directories. >>> > >>> > Title : Home Networking Architecture for IPv6 >>> > Author(s) : Jari Arkko >>> > Tim Chown >>> > Jason Weil >>> > Ole Troan >>> > Filename : draft-chown-homenet-arch-00.txt >>> > Pages : 20 >>> > Date : 2011-09-21 >>> > >>> > This text describes the evolving networking technology within small >>> > "residential home" networks. The goal of this memo is to >>> > define the >>> > architecture for IPv6-based home networking. The text highlights the >>> > impact of IPv6 on home networking, and illustrates some topology >>> > scenarios. The architecture shows how standard IPv6 mechanisms and >>> > addressing can be employed in home networking, lists a number of >>> > principles that should apply, and outlines the need for specific >>> > protocol extensions for certain additional functionality. >>> > >>> > >>> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chown-homenet-arch-00.txt >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > homenet mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
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