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Le 9 oct. 2014 à 13:03, Ole Troan <[email protected]> a écrit :

> Pierre,
> 
> I certainly understand your argument, and we don't disagree on the technical 
> merit.
> 
>> I’m proposing this change then.
>> 
>> 1. In case the provided prefix is 64, the default consist in assigning 
>> prefixes of length 64 first.
>> 2. I’m adding a reference to 6man-why64.
>> 
>> When the algorithm decides to make a new assignment, it first needs
>>   to specify the desired size of the assigned prefix.  Although this
>>   algorithm intends to remain generic, it was observed in
>>   [I-D.ietf-6man-why64] that hosts may malfunction when the prefix
>>   length is not 64.  Therefore, prefixes of length 64 are RECOMMENDED.
>>   The following table MAY be used as default values, where X is the
>>   length of the delegated prefix.
>> 
>>   If X <= 64:  Prefix length = 64
> 
> the "may malfunction" is not the reason for why the IPv6 address is classful, 
> so please don't put that as justification for a default of 64.

I’ll change that into something more generic like: « Because of all the reasons 
listed in [I-D.ietf-6man-why64], prefixes of length 64 are RECOMMENDED. ». 

> 
> I would like this document to say as little as possible about the boundary.
> RFC6204 says:
> L-2:   The IPv6 CE router MUST assign a separate /64 from its
>          delegated prefix(es) (and ULA prefix if configured to provide
>          ULA addressing) for each of its LAN interfaces.
> 
> which you could tweak to fit this document as well. have text like that in 
> one place, and then all other places threat it as an arbitrary length.
> 
> please remove the table with the description of what to do for various values 
> of X.

The algorithm treats IPv4 and IPv6 the same way, as well as any prefix lengths. 
That table is important for IPv4 support.

> I'd be happy with a statement like in RFC6204:
>   WPD-3:  ...If the
>           delegated prefix is too small to address all of its
>           interfaces, the IPv6 CE router SHOULD log a system management
>           error.
> 
>> Processes proposed in the appendix are optional.
>> Our implementation supports some part of it, and it works fine in our 
>> test-cases.
>> I’d rather have a /80 than no connectivity at all (And it just works.).
>> IMO, why64 is way too pessimistic on the current implementation state and 
>> even more when it comes to the progress implementations will do in the 
>> coming years.
>> 
>> And we either do that or let people do NAT66. ;)
>> 
>> 
>> Is it OK for you Ole ?
> 
> I'd also remove the appendix.
> it doesn't make sense to specify something that breaks SLAAC.

But you think it makes sense to specify something that breaks the network 
instead. That is, IMO, a curious tradeoff.

> 
> protocol design is politics. we want to make it clear to the address 
> delegation authorities that not delegating a large enough address block will 
> lead to breakage.

It’s not only about the size of the prefix. It’s about all the variety of 
situations we will encounter.
Before the first homenet router is shipped, Hipnet-like routers (Those who do 
PD sub delegation) will be there. 
Mostly as CPE routers. If the ISP is kind enough to give you a /56, they will 
probably give you a /60. If the ISP provides a /60, they will provide a /64.
The customer will buy a *homenet enabled* router. Put it behind one of these 
CPEs, and won’t be able to provide a prefix on both wifi and wired networks. 
That works in ISP—Homenet—SubDelegation—Homenet situations too.

And broadband ISPs are not the only kind of uplinks you will have to deal with. 
- VPN service that provides you with a /64 only
- Virtualized networks
- Tethering with your phone… They are not going to provide a /56 for that (Or 
at least not soon enough).
- Electrical Company will probably not start giving 56s.
- etc…

And on top of that, you’ll have all the devices that require /64 prefixes and 
cut work without it. 
The algorithm is able to provide them with /64s and deal with smaller prefixes 
on the rest of the network.

Let’s dream about a world where every device will talk Homenet, but waiting for 
that time, we’ll have to deal with hundreds of devices that behave differently.

> 
> in my view, if we let this principle slide, then the risk isn't that the 
> delegations are /80s, but that they will be /128s. and you're back to IPv6 
> NAT anyhow.
> 

If that really is a valuable argument, we should start breaking IPv4 so that 
ISPs deploy IPv6 faster.

Cheers,

- Pierre
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