In message <[email protected]>
Juliusz Chroboczek writes:
>  
> > Thought: In general, my feeling is that L2 link status is widely relied
> > upon in commercial product/dpeloyments. If homenet feels it can not rely
> > on it due to the non-commercial nature of its development platforms,
> > thats an interesting aspect, especially because it could impact an IETF
> > standard that we'd like to see commercially implemented and then the
> > constraints could be different...
>  
> Are you referring to the routing protocol comparison, or to something else?
>  
> I have the impression that Babel and IS-IS behave essentially the same
> wrt. L2 status -- they both converge fast enough after link status has
> been established, and they essentially provide the same facilities for
> application-layer link sensing (IMHO Babel's Hello/IHU subprotocol is
> slightly more flexible, but that's probably not a big deal).
>  
> As to wireless links -- as far as I'm aware, making efficient use of
> wireless L2 information in a routing protocol is an open research problem.

Other than signal strength and collision rate, what L2 information is
available?  Per MAC information would be nice for the AP side or any
node in mesh or adhoc mode but that isn't collected anywhere AFAIK.

> -- Juliusz
>  
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ISPs mostly use Ethernet as point-to-point (PTP) links.  Including
using 100GbE as PTP.  No switches.  L2 Link down is one fast indicator
of link down.  But for Ethernet over transport gear (ie: OTN) BFD is
almost always used.  For short distances L2 over extended reach optics
can be used, including colored optics and WDM.  This is also PTP and
in this case BFD should not be needed.  To the extent that routers use
SONET or OTN interfaces, these have fast L2 link down indication and
are integrated with L3 link down detection.  In all of these detection
is on the order of 10 msec (geographic distance dependent), failover
using FRR is under 50 msec, and IGP convergence is well under a second
(typical 100-200 msec today AFAIK).  L3 hellos are way too slow.

BFD is not heavy weight.  L3 hellos (OSPF, ISIS) can be set down to 1s
with detection in 3s (too slow).

BFD, Hellos, or any form of probe traffic over wireless has the speed
of detection vs overhead issue.  At nominal 10 Mb/s (low end today for
wireless) a small probe would take about 0.1 msec (for example, 125
bytes including all overhead is about 1000 bits).  Not bad if running
100 probes/sec (30 msec detection) unless there are a very large
number of stations using the AP and doing the same thing.  In that
case 10 probes per second might be better.  A very high collision rate
(typically not due to probes, but to real traffic) might result in a
link down indication.  If that is the case, then moving to another AP
would be a good thing.

Flapping needs to be avoided if an alternate is available (ie: with
20% loss, in .2*.2*.2 = .008 = 0.8% of intervale a down indication
would occur).  If any packet received would bring it back up, then at
100 probes / sec, a change in IGP link state could occur about once a
second on average.  Remembering a link down and holding a down state
for a (longish) while would be a good thing.  If there is no alternate
route, not probing at all and/or holding an up state would be good.
OTOH- 20% loss borders on completely unusable.

Curtis

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