Regarding cut bell horns, I must agree with Ken and Hans. Between horn restorations custom work, we do 40 to 50 bell conversions a year. Yes, there is an acoustical difference due to the added mass of the bell ring, but it is minimal. Once you've played the cut bell horn for a week or two, you will have adjusted - and compensated for - the altered playing characteristics. It struck me that the NY Philharmonic section all play cut bell Schmid horns... and they apparently manage to "get by".
Whether it be the ease of transport, the ability to change bells according to repertoire, projection or timbre requirements, or in order to avoid problems with checked baggage, the advantages of cut bell horns far outweigh the disadvantages. - Dennis Houghton, Houghton Custom Horns. -----Original Message----- From: Houghton Horns LLC [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 100, Issue 16 Send Horn mailing list submissions to To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/horn or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include the entire digest in your reply. For more netiquette information, see: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Today's Topics: 1. Re: cut bells ([email protected]) 2. Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size (valerie wells) 3. Re: Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size (Milton Kicklighter) 4. Re: Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size (Chris Wilhjelm) 5. Cut Bells (Wilbert Kimple) 6. Re: Cut Bells (Hans Pizka) 7. Re: Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size (Hans Pizka) 8. San Francisco Opera..!!!Alert for Hornists!!! (Carl Ek) 9. Re: Horn Digest, Vol 100, Issue 15 (christopher Griffin) 10. Re: Bad woodwind-itis cure sought! (Kathy Lowe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:22:29 -0400 From: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] cut bells To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <905E8792C4734337B7722471E8587AF4@PIR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I probably cut a couple bells a week, and I used to encourage owners of certain horns to NOT cut them.... (ie Geyers etc), but that was all pre-9/11. Now that I have seen the 'modifications' that the baggage handlers routinely do on fixed bell horns I encourage ALL horns to be cut. Makers who used to refuse to cut bells (Hill, Rauch) are now offering those services as well. Of the thousands of bells that I've cut I've never ever had someone say that it made their horn 'worse' in any way, and typically they all like the horn better after the conversion. So..I'll have to disagree with Steve M on this one. It's better to have a good technician alter your horn, than to have a baggage handler do it. Sincerely Ken Pope Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain (Boston), MA 02130 617-522-0532 http://www.poperepair.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:48:27 -0700 From: valerie wells <[email protected]> Subject: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size To: horn list 2 memphis <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I loved my Holton Merker 276, but didn't enjoy the screw bell hassle. A few years later, I found another Holton Merker (183) with a fixed bell and eventually decided I liked it better than my first Merker. So I sold my first beautiful rose bronze Merker. The newer Holton 183 is a medium bell throat, yellow brass horn. I've owned four horns previously, and this is the first on which I can successfully play stopped horn with my own small hand consistently transposing to E horn (on the F side). I find it a big relief that I don't have to use the brass stopper for quick change muted notes anymore. Several people told me years ago that hand size was not likely a factor in my inability to play stopped horn with my own hand. They insisted it was a matter of proper technique, etc. I strongly disagree. I can make the transition to and from stopped horn in a nano-second on this horn, but never could on my other horns. With the larger bell throat horns, I had to find an alternate fingering for most stopped notes to sound in tune. Preparing a passage for performance was time consuming, so when ever time permitted, I used a brass stop mute. When it comes to playing stopped horn naturally, I believe a proper match between hand and bell throat size is important. Valerie -- Valerie Wells The Balanced Embouchure Method http://bebabe.wordpress.com/ http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 11:03:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Milton Kicklighter <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size To: The Horn List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I to have a small hand and have a difficult time stopping some notes.? And I DO THINK?that the size of the hand makes?a difference. ?Milton Milton Kicklighter 4th Horn Buffalo Philharmonic Retired ________________________________ From: valerie wells <[email protected]> To: horn list 2 memphis <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:48:27 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size I loved my Holton Merker 276, but didn't enjoy the screw bell hassle. A few years later, I found another Holton Merker (183) with a fixed bell and eventually decided I liked it better than my first Merker. So I sold my first beautiful rose bronze Merker. The newer Holton 183 is a medium bell throat, yellow brass horn.? I've owned four horns previously, and this is the first on which I can successfully play stopped horn with my own small hand consistently transposing to E horn (on the F side).? I find it a big relief that I don't have to use the brass stopper for quick change muted notes anymore. Several people told me years ago that hand size was not likely a factor in my inability to play stopped horn with my own hand.? They insisted it was a matter of proper technique, etc.? I strongly disagree.? I can make the transition to and from stopped horn in a nano-second on this horn, but never could on my other horns.? With the larger bell throat horns, I had to find an alternate fingering for most stopped notes to sound in tune.? Preparing a passage for performance was time consuming, so when ever time permitted, I used a brass stop mute. When it comes to playing stopped horn naturally, I believe a proper match between hand and bell throat size is important. Valerie -- Valerie Wells The Balanced Embouchure Method http://bebabe.wordpress.com/ http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yaho o.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 15:03:18 -0400 From: "Chris Wilhjelm" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size To: "The Horn List" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Clearly it does matter. Stopping even really low notes on my Alex 103 is a walk in the park compared to my 8D which is nearly impossible much below the staff. It is also much easier to move in and out of the bell a bit to adjust the pitch. I would also like to take this time to thank all of you on the list for not taking this discussion in an unfortunate direction. c >>> Milton Kicklighter <[email protected]> 4/12/2011 2:03 PM >>> I to have a small hand and have a difficult time stopping some notes. And I DO THINK that the size of the hand makes a difference. Milton Milton Kicklighter 4th Horn Buffalo Philharmonic Retired ________________________________ From: valerie wells <[email protected]> To: horn list 2 memphis <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:48:27 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size I loved my Holton Merker 276, but didn't enjoy the screw bell hassle. A few years later, I found another Holton Merker (183) with a fixed bell and eventually decided I liked it better than my first Merker. So I sold my first beautiful rose bronze Merker. The newer Holton 183 is a medium bell throat, yellow brass horn. I've owned four horns previously, and this is the first on which I can successfully play stopped horn with my own small hand consistently transposing to E horn (on the F side). I find it a big relief that I don't have to use the brass stopper for quick change muted notes anymore. Several people told me years ago that hand size was not likely a factor in my inability to play stopped horn with my own hand. They insisted it was a matter of proper technique, etc. I strongly disagree. I can make the transition to and from stopped horn in a nano-second on this horn, but never could on my other horns. With the larger bell throat horns, I had to find an alternate fingering for most stopped notes to sound in tune. Preparing a passage for performance was time consuming, so when ever time permitted, I used a brass stop mute. When it comes to playing stopped horn naturally, I believe a proper match between hand and bell throat size is important. Valerie -- Valerie Wells The Balanced Embouchure Method http://bebabe.wordpress.com/ http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yaho o.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/cwilhjelm%40pascack .k12.nj.us ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Wilbert Kimple <[email protected]> Subject: [Hornlist] Cut Bells To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A few months ago a friend of mine in CA and I got into a discussion about cut bells. He asked me one simple question. Which of my horns did I like and use the most? The ones I chose all had fixed bells. That settled the argument for me. I've sold all of my screw bell instruments. Wilbert in SC ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 22:45:05 +0200 From: Hans Pizka <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Cut Bells To: The Horn List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Wilbert, if there is a difference in the playing characteristics between cut bell & uncut bell, it would be minimal. And all disappears, if YOU are the MASTER of the horn & not a SLAVE of the horn. If the horn is (nearly) perfect in intonation & YOU can make a beautiful sound with it, what should that little mechanical change change ????? Don?t come with the vibration theory, please. The horn is not an instrument creating a sound by the instruments vibrations but by the lips initiating an air column to vibrate - NOT THE ENCLOSING METAL CHANNEL. The enforcing ring works similar to the kranz on a Viennese horn ....... preventing it from blaring .... SO, tell me where the change is ? Does this change just exist in our imagination far from real , perhaps ????? Will we consult the shaman or with doctors for sound & performance issues, perhaps ? We could ask conductors, sorry, aren?t they consulting fortune tellers, witch doctors & shamans also, or even presidents are said doing such ....... ############################################################################ ## Am 12.04.2011 um 21:26 schrieb Wilbert Kimple: > > A few months ago a friend of mine in CA and I got into a discussion about cut bells. He asked me one simple question. Which of my horns did I like and use the most? The ones I chose all had fixed bells. That settled the argument for me. I've sold all of my screw bell instruments. > > Wilbert in SC > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 22:55:38 +0200 From: Hans Pizka <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size To: The Horn List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Chris, stopped notes below staff are nonsense anyway. Composers might use them very rarely for a special effect. But many modern composer are in fond of such special effects. Their music sounds like reading a phone directory: far too many effects, but no story ...... Wagner, Strauss, Mahler, Debussy, Ravel & some fine sound track composers knew very well, how to use them without the need for the players to sacrifice themselves. And these composers used them well thought. Nobody will check, how you produce the desired sound, if you can produce it well. Nobody will check your hand before or after. You can camouflage around as you like. You can betray composer & conductor as you like, by just playing the sound they want, but CONVINCING. Nobody will care about your personal technique. I used the conical mute for the lower gestopft notes, but levered it a bit out of the bell & played the note with a bit of "stressed embouchure", producing that squeezy sound, and a little more air push than usual did the rest. There are more than one ways to Tipperary. You just have to find the right one. ############################################################################ ############## Am 12.04.2011 um 21:03 schrieb Chris Wilhjelm: > > Clearly it does matter. Stopping even really low notes on my Alex 103 is a walk in the park compared to my 8D which is nearly impossible much below the staff. It is also much easier to move in and out of the bell a bit to adjust the pitch. > > I would also like to take this time to thank all of you on the list for not taking this discussion in an unfortunate direction. > > c > > > >>>> Milton Kicklighter <[email protected]> 4/12/2011 2:03 PM >>> > I to have a small hand and have a difficult time stopping some notes. And I DO > THINK that the size of the hand makes a difference. > > Milton > Milton Kicklighter > 4th Horn Buffalo Philharmonic > Retired > > > > > ________________________________ > From: valerie wells <[email protected]> > To: horn list 2 memphis <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 1:48:27 PM > Subject: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, bell throat & hand size > > I loved my Holton Merker 276, but didn't enjoy the screw bell hassle. > A few years later, I found another Holton Merker (183) with a fixed > bell and eventually decided I liked it better than my first Merker. > So I sold my first beautiful rose bronze Merker. > > The newer Holton 183 is a medium bell throat, yellow brass horn. I've > owned four horns previously, and this is the first on which I can > successfully play stopped horn with my own small hand consistently > transposing to E horn (on the F side). I find it a big relief that I > don't have to use the brass stopper for quick change muted notes > anymore. > > Several people told me years ago that hand size was not likely a > factor in my inability to play stopped horn with my own hand. They > insisted it was a matter of proper technique, etc. I strongly > disagree. I can make the transition to and from stopped horn in a > nano-second on this horn, but never could on my other horns. With the > larger bell throat horns, I had to find an alternate fingering for > most stopped notes to sound in tune. Preparing a passage for > performance was time consuming, so when ever time permitted, I used a > brass stop mute. > > When it comes to playing stopped horn naturally, I believe a proper > match between hand and bell throat size is important. > > Valerie > -- > Valerie Wells > The Balanced Embouchure Method > http://bebabe.wordpress.com/ > http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/kicklighgter%40yaho o.com > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/cwilhjelm%40pascack .k12.nj.us > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 16:56:44 -0700 From: Carl Ek <[email protected]> Subject: [Hornlist] San Francisco Opera..!!!Alert for Hornists!!! To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Dear Hornlisters: I remove my cloak of invisibility and de-lurk with this information: A San Francisco Treat for Hornists !? No.? Not Rice-a-Roni....something far more rich and fattening. During IHS-week, right here in Fog-City...can you believe it ???? ....The event of the summer! Richard Wagner's epic four-opera saga, The Ring of the Nibelung! Presented in its entirety at the San Francisco Opera. Greetings from San Francisco! Carl Ek IMPORTANT DATES: Das Rheingold ? Ring, Part 1 June 14, 21, 28*, 8pm Siegfried ? Ring, Part 3 May 29*, 1pm; June 17, 24, July 1*, 6:30pm ? Die Walk?re ? Ring, Part 2 June 15, 22, 29*, 7pm G?tterd?mmerung ? Ring, Part 4 June 5*, 19, 26, July 3*, 1pm ? You can buy complete cycles and see the four-opera saga in one incredible week. Cycle 1 June 14 ? 19?????????? Cycle 2 June 21 ? 26?????????? Cycle 3* June 28 ? July 3 http://sfopera.com/Season-Tickets.aspx FULL ARTICLE: http://mail.tmsmail.us/bin/display_msg?id=4ABD583E530433F72FE560942CEF9E0D0D 2CA159D82CCE63 ("unnecessary" marketing literature follows....) Feel the electricity and excitement alongside thousands of Ring fans from around the world. It promises to be the theatrical experience of a lifetime! As praised by The Wall Street Journal, "Ms. Zambello has come up with impeccable staging to match the music and plot... I could not take my eyes off the stage, my ears from the music, my mind from the plights of these doomed characters. Conductor Donald Runnicles interpreted and steered Wagner's sublime score precisely and transparently, with an orchestra of virtuosi." ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:48:12 -0400 From: christopher Griffin <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horn Digest, Vol 100, Issue 15 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve Mumford said: "I had cut bell horns for quite awhile but you know, I got tired of screwing the damn bell on and off every time I wanted to play something. The only real advantage is for those rare times that it might help in traveling. Eventually I got a shaped case and left the thing screwed together." I had my bell cut for travel but I keep the horn assembled in a fixed bell case. I've heard cutting the bell improves the horn by dampening the vibrations just enough to help center notes. I was cautious and worried how my horn would play afterward. I had a beloved old Conn 8D and I was very sensitive to how precious it may be in regards to its original form. So I went to a vintage Conn specialist. He lives in Cleveland and works on the horns of the Cleveland Orchestra. As most of you know, they are a Conn 8D exclusive section. I guess it's the last great strong hold. Any how, the horn turned out great! Thanks Chuck Ward! Chris Griffin ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:22:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Lowe <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Bad woodwind-itis cure sought! To: Horn Memphis <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ever listen to a band playing Irish Washerwoman? There is a part where only the flutes and piccolos are playing to the accompaniment of 49 pounding feet (I don't need to keep time for 32 measures). Kathy Anaheim, CA Message: 18 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 08:36:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Reidhead <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Bad woodwind-itis cure sought! To: The Horn List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I didn't get the nickname, but that was me my freshman year of high school - a problem that was exacerbated by the fact that our band room was equipped with very resonant wooden risers.... Ben ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/horn End of Horn Digest, Vol 100, Issue 16 ************************************* _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
