This just out by Nathaniel Heller of Global Integrity: "Pakistan's Move Against Maps…and Openness"
http://globalintegrity.org/blog/Pakistan-Move-Against-Maps-and-Openness "The bottom line: the proposed legislation is anachronistic and ill-advised, and those with influence need to communicate those concerns. " On Nov 28, 2012, at 12:20 PM, Joseph Pollack <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear List, > > https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/crisismappers/gjEDYP3Z0Hs > > there's some discussion there too, with some Pakistanis that have > participated. I have also shortly pronounced myself on the topic (e.g. we > should be naive and act in good faith to ride the wave and get more > legislation passed to secure crisis mapping). > > I'm supposing all the members here are also CM members. :-) > > Warm Regards, > > -Joseph. > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send HOT mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of HOT digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM (Alex Barth) > 2. Re: Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM (Alex Barth) > 3. Re: Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM (Harry Wood) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:48:23 -0500 > From: Alex Barth <[email protected]> > To: Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HOT] Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > I'm less interested in figuring out how we could comply with this law than > what means of direct action we have to campaign against it. Mapping in > Pakistan is not yet illegal. We could have some fun here. > > Anybody on this list who's mapping on the ground in Pakistan / who knows > folks mapping on the ground in Pakistan? > > On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Alex I understand your frustration about that law...however, Toby has a > > good point. The problem is who, how and when can this be implemented so all > > our rear end no matter where we are is covered - less you, me the OSM group > > be imprisoned. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Toby Murray <[email protected]> wrote: > > While I agree that this is complete BS, would it be possible for a > > local OSM chapter organization to register with the SoP and thereby > > cover OSM members in Pakistan? This might require keeping an official > > list of members and getting new mappers to add their name to the list > > which isn't really cool... but maybe better than no maps at all? > > > > Toby > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Alex Barth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "The proposed Bill will require all government or private agencies > > > involved in surveying and mapping to register themselves with the SoP. > > > Failing to do so will result in one-year imprisonment and a fine of up to > > > one million rupees." > > > > > > > > > This is fucked up. The national security argument is completely futile. I > > > think this law would really hurt OpenStreetMap, essentially making every > > > mapper on the ground a criminal unless they register with a gov agency > > > (yeah, right) and it completely hampers geo-based IT innovation like > > > Faisal said. > > > > > > What can we do about this? > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Faisal Chohan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> On a general terms: > > >> > > >> 1. Laws are never implemented on powerful persons or entities in > > >> Pakistan. Laws are for general public and implemented on them harshly. > > >> And when an ordinary person gets into these cases there is no way out. > > >> It destroys all of his/her life and career. > > >> > > >> Specific to the mapping. I am not a lawyer but this is my observation, > > >> > > >> 1. The local laws do not affect the people living out-side Pakistan, > > >> unless they do not enter in Pakistan. e.g in one instance a case is > > >> registered against facebook founder, but it does not mean anything for > > >> the facebook founder. The only problem with the case is that the > > >> facebook founder cannot enter in Pakistan without clearing from this > > >> case. > > >> > > >> This directly harms the Pakistani IT community and people. As Facebook > > >> will never build a physical office in Pakistan due to this case. The > > >> powerful and rich people will have their children studying in US and > > >> then get access to the employment in companies like facebook but a > > >> general person will not. > > >> > > >> The only problem with international projects like openstreetmap is that > > >> most of the implementations are carried out by local people. And once > > >> they cannot be involved into these projects, there seems distant > > >> possibility of any substantial projects initiated or completed. > > >> > > >> 2. We were doing on-ground mapping in Pakistan especially our TED prize > > >> winner project "SaafPindi". After reading this news we have stopped on > > >> ground mapping and are not updating open street map from Friday > > >> on-wards. We are just pondering different options. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Faisal Chohan > > >> > > >> TED Senior Fellow | www.ted.com/fellows > > >> Disaster and open data mapper | www.pakreport.org > > >> Co-Founder | www.BrightSpyre.com > > >> Co-Founder | www.cogilent.com > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Mobile: +1 415 692 7920 > > >> Twitter: @faisalchohan > > >> Skype: faisalchohan > > >> Personal Blog: http://faisalchohan.blogspot.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Kate Chapman <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think it depends. If we were going to start a project in Pakistan > > >> physically on the ground it is a huge deal. Remote activations it > > >> probably isn't a huge issue for us specifically, though I wonder about > > >> people on the ground using the data. Would it be an issue if they were > > >> not mapping, but just using unofficial map sources. > > >> > > >> There are some similar sounding laws in Indonesia, but the > > >> implementation has been really different. For example 2 years ago a > > >> law was passed that in summary says if you distribute inaccurate data > > >> you will pay a big fine or do jail time. We are working closely with > > >> Badan Informasi Geospasial (the NMA) on this however. The law is a lot > > >> less scary in implementation in our case than when it first come out. > > >> > > >> Can't say that Pakistan will do the same, but it is one of those > > >> things where I'm not sure what we can do other than wait and see. > > >> > > >> -Kate > > >> > > >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Mark Iliffe <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > Hi All, > > >> > > > >> > I've just seen this through Twitter, it may be of relevance to those > > >> > mapping > > >> > in/near Pakistan. The short version is thus; it seems that Pakistan is > > >> > legislating against mapping which ins't conducted by the national > > >> > mapping > > >> > agency. > > >> > > > >> > http://dawn.com/2012/11/21/pakistanis-lost-without-maps/ > > >> > > > >> > Best, > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > HOT mailing list > > >> > [email protected] > > >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > Alex Barth > > > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > > > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > HOT mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > > > -- > > Play it forward and Have a good one! > > --- > > "Like a camera I use the negative to develop..uDig" > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of > > enthusiasm" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > OutSourceRox > > Roxroy K. Bollers > > GIS and IT Consultant > > tel. 592.685.2737 > > ......................................................... > > Follow Us On > > Facebook > > Google+ > > Web > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Portfolio: > > http://www.tropicaltimber.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > Alex Barth > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:04:19 -0500 > From: Alex Barth <[email protected]> > To: Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [HOT] Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Also, this line makes it sound unlikely that an entity like OSM or HOT would > get the permit for mapping as it seems this law is specifically designed to > restrict this type of activities. At least I'm sure we'd be in for a real > bureaucratic shit show. > > "According to the BBC, Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf chaired a meeting of > the federal cabinet on November 14 in which the Ministry of Defence (MoD) > expressed its concerns about the quality of maps being produced by various > departments of the United Nations and other humanitarian agencies in > Pakistan. Furthermore, the MoD expressed reservations about mapping of > sensitive areas in Pakistan. The MoD highlighted the need for legislation to > act against such agencies." > > > On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Alex I understand your frustration about that law...however, Toby has a > > good point. The problem is who, how and when can this be implemented so all > > our rear end no matter where we are is covered - less you, me the OSM group > > be imprisoned. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Toby Murray <[email protected]> wrote: > > While I agree that this is complete BS, would it be possible for a > > local OSM chapter organization to register with the SoP and thereby > > cover OSM members in Pakistan? This might require keeping an official > > list of members and getting new mappers to add their name to the list > > which isn't really cool... but maybe better than no maps at all? > > > > Toby > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Alex Barth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "The proposed Bill will require all government or private agencies > > > involved in surveying and mapping to register themselves with the SoP. > > > Failing to do so will result in one-year imprisonment and a fine of up to > > > one million rupees." > > > > > > > > > This is fucked up. The national security argument is completely futile. I > > > think this law would really hurt OpenStreetMap, essentially making every > > > mapper on the ground a criminal unless they register with a gov agency > > > (yeah, right) and it completely hampers geo-based IT innovation like > > > Faisal said. > > > > > > What can we do about this? > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Faisal Chohan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> On a general terms: > > >> > > >> 1. Laws are never implemented on powerful persons or entities in > > >> Pakistan. Laws are for general public and implemented on them harshly. > > >> And when an ordinary person gets into these cases there is no way out. > > >> It destroys all of his/her life and career. > > >> > > >> Specific to the mapping. I am not a lawyer but this is my observation, > > >> > > >> 1. The local laws do not affect the people living out-side Pakistan, > > >> unless they do not enter in Pakistan. e.g in one instance a case is > > >> registered against facebook founder, but it does not mean anything for > > >> the facebook founder. The only problem with the case is that the > > >> facebook founder cannot enter in Pakistan without clearing from this > > >> case. > > >> > > >> This directly harms the Pakistani IT community and people. As Facebook > > >> will never build a physical office in Pakistan due to this case. The > > >> powerful and rich people will have their children studying in US and > > >> then get access to the employment in companies like facebook but a > > >> general person will not. > > >> > > >> The only problem with international projects like openstreetmap is that > > >> most of the implementations are carried out by local people. And once > > >> they cannot be involved into these projects, there seems distant > > >> possibility of any substantial projects initiated or completed. > > >> > > >> 2. We were doing on-ground mapping in Pakistan especially our TED prize > > >> winner project "SaafPindi". After reading this news we have stopped on > > >> ground mapping and are not updating open street map from Friday > > >> on-wards. We are just pondering different options. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Faisal Chohan > > >> > > >> TED Senior Fellow | www.ted.com/fellows > > >> Disaster and open data mapper | www.pakreport.org > > >> Co-Founder | www.BrightSpyre.com > > >> Co-Founder | www.cogilent.com > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Mobile: +1 415 692 7920 > > >> Twitter: @faisalchohan > > >> Skype: faisalchohan > > >> Personal Blog: http://faisalchohan.blogspot.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Kate Chapman <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think it depends. If we were going to start a project in Pakistan > > >> physically on the ground it is a huge deal. Remote activations it > > >> probably isn't a huge issue for us specifically, though I wonder about > > >> people on the ground using the data. Would it be an issue if they were > > >> not mapping, but just using unofficial map sources. > > >> > > >> There are some similar sounding laws in Indonesia, but the > > >> implementation has been really different. For example 2 years ago a > > >> law was passed that in summary says if you distribute inaccurate data > > >> you will pay a big fine or do jail time. We are working closely with > > >> Badan Informasi Geospasial (the NMA) on this however. The law is a lot > > >> less scary in implementation in our case than when it first come out. > > >> > > >> Can't say that Pakistan will do the same, but it is one of those > > >> things where I'm not sure what we can do other than wait and see. > > >> > > >> -Kate > > >> > > >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Mark Iliffe <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > Hi All, > > >> > > > >> > I've just seen this through Twitter, it may be of relevance to those > > >> > mapping > > >> > in/near Pakistan. The short version is thus; it seems that Pakistan is > > >> > legislating against mapping which ins't conducted by the national > > >> > mapping > > >> > agency. > > >> > > > >> > http://dawn.com/2012/11/21/pakistanis-lost-without-maps/ > > >> > > > >> > Best, > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > HOT mailing list > > >> > [email protected] > > >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > Alex Barth > > > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > > > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > HOT mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > > > -- > > Play it forward and Have a good one! > > --- > > "Like a camera I use the negative to develop..uDig" > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of > > enthusiasm" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > OutSourceRox > > Roxroy K. Bollers > > GIS and IT Consultant > > tel. 592.685.2737 > > ......................................................... > > Follow Us On > > Facebook > > Google+ > > Web > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Portfolio: > > http://www.tropicaltimber.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > Alex Barth > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 09:14:26 -0800 (PST) > From: Harry Wood <[email protected]> > To: Alex Barth <[email protected]>, Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for > HOT/OSM > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I agree. I don't think rolling over and complying is a good idea.?It doesn't > really fit well with the principles of OpenStreetMap to my mind. We want free > and open data, and the right to re-use and re-distribute it freely. Doesn't > it go without saying that we also stand up for the right to collect and > maintain it freely??As Alex says I would guess that they would make the > process prohibitively expensive and onerous, or just reject OSM outright.? > > I'd be more inclined to use channels like the HOT blog or the OpenStreetMap > foundation blog to put out a statement or launch a campaign speaking against > the new laws. ...If the local OpenStreetMap community wish it. > > But it might make matters worse. Perhaps it's best just to lay low for a > while. We've seen similar bad laws introduced in Egypt, China, Russia, and > (from what Kate said) Indonesia too. It seems to me that these are > short-lived news stories stemming from some hot-headed politicians, but don't > end up being an absolute blocker for OpenStreetMap's progress in the long run. > > Harry > > > ________________________________ > From: Alex Barth <[email protected]> > To: Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2012, 17:04 > Subject: Re: [HOT] Pakistan Anti-Mapping Legislation: Implications for HOT/OSM > > Also, this line makes it sound unlikely that an entity like OSM or HOT would > get the permit for mapping as it seems this law is specifically designed to > restrict this type of activities. At least I'm sure we'd be in for a real > bureaucratic shit show. > > "According to the BBC, Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf chaired a meeting of > the federal cabinet on November 14 in which the Ministry of Defence (MoD) > expressed its concerns about the quality of maps being produced by various > departments of the United Nations and other humanitarian agencies in > Pakistan. Furthermore, the MoD expressed reservations about mapping of > sensitive areas in Pakistan. The MoD highlighted the need for legislation to > act against such agencies." > > > On Nov 28, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Roxroy Bollers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Alex I understand your frustration about that law...however, Toby has a > > good point. The problem is who, how and when can this be implemented so all > > our rear end no matter where we are is covered - less you, me the OSM group > > be imprisoned. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Toby Murray <[email protected]> wrote: > > While I agree that this is complete BS, would it be possible for a > > local OSM chapter organization to register with the SoP and thereby > > cover OSM members in Pakistan? This might require keeping an official > > list of members and getting new mappers to add their name to the list > > which isn't really cool... but maybe better than no maps at all? > > > > Toby > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Alex Barth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > "The proposed Bill will require all government or private agencies > > > involved in surveying and mapping to register themselves with the SoP. > > > Failing to do so will result in one-year imprisonment and a fine of up to > > > one million rupees." > > > > > > > > > This is fucked up. The national security argument is completely futile. I > > > think this law would really hurt OpenStreetMap, essentially making every > > > mapper on the ground a criminal unless they register with a gov agency > > > (yeah, right) and it completely hampers geo-based IT innovation like > > > Faisal said. > > > > > > What can we do about this? > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Faisal Chohan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> On a general terms: > > >> > > >> 1. Laws are never implemented on powerful persons or entities in > > >> Pakistan. Laws are for general public and implemented on them harshly. > > >> And when an ordinary person gets into these cases there is no way out. > > >> It destroys all of his/her life and career. > > >> > > >> Specific to the mapping. I am not a lawyer but this is my observation, > > >> > > >> 1. The local laws do not affect the people living out-side Pakistan, > > >> unless they do not enter in Pakistan. e.g in one instance a case is > > >> registered against facebook founder, but it does not mean anything for > > >> the facebook founder. The only problem with the case is that the > > >> facebook founder cannot enter in Pakistan without clearing from this > > >> case. > > >> > > >> This directly harms the Pakistani IT community and people. As Facebook > > >> will never build a physical office in Pakistan due to this case. The > > >> powerful and rich people will have their children studying in US and > > >> then get access to the employment in companies like facebook but a > > >> general person will not. > > >> > > >> The only problem with international projects like openstreetmap is that > > >> most of the implementations are carried out by local people. And once > > >> they cannot be involved into these projects, there seems distant > > >> possibility of any substantial projects initiated or completed. > > >> > > >> 2. We were doing on-ground mapping in Pakistan especially our TED prize > > >> winner project "SaafPindi". After reading this news we have stopped on > > >> ground mapping and are not updating open street map from Friday > > >> on-wards.? We are just pondering different options. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> Faisal Chohan > > >> > > >> TED Senior Fellow | www.ted.com/fellows > > >> Disaster and open data mapper | www.pakreport.org > > >> Co-Founder | www.BrightSpyre.com > > >> Co-Founder | www.cogilent.com > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Mobile: +1 415 692 7920 > > >> Twitter: @faisalchohan > > >> Skype: faisalchohan > > >> Personal Blog: http://faisalchohan.blogspot.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Kate Chapman <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hi Mark, > > >> > > >> I think it depends. If we were going to start a project in Pakistan > > >> physically on the ground it is a huge deal. Remote activations it > > >> probably isn't a huge issue for us specifically, though I wonder about > > >> people on the ground using the data. Would it be an issue if they were > > >> not mapping, but just using unofficial map sources. > > >> > > >> There are some similar sounding laws in Indonesia, but the > > >> implementation has been really different. For example 2 years ago a > > >> law was passed that in summary says if you distribute inaccurate data > > >> you will pay a big fine or do jail time. We are working closely with > > >> Badan Informasi Geospasial (the NMA) on this however. The law is a lot > > >> less scary in implementation in our case than when it first come out. > > >> > > >> Can't say that Pakistan will do the same, but it is one of those > > >> things where I'm not sure what we can do other than wait and see. > > >> > > >> -Kate > > >> > > >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Mark Iliffe <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > Hi All, > > >> > > > >> > I've just seen this through Twitter, it may be of relevance to those > > >> > mapping > > >> > in/near Pakistan. The short version is thus; it seems that Pakistan is > > >> > legislating against mapping which ins't conducted by the national > > >> > mapping > > >> > agency. > > >> > > > >> > http://dawn.com/2012/11/21/pakistanis-lost-without-maps/ > > >> > > > >> > Best, > > >> > > > >> > Mark > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > HOT mailing list > > >> > [email protected] > > >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> HOT mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > Alex Barth > > > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > > > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > HOT mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > > > > -- > > Play it forward and Have a good one! > > --- > > "Like a camera I use the negative to develop..uDig" > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of > > enthusiasm" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > OutSourceRox > > Roxroy K. Bollers > > GIS and IT Consultant > > tel. 592.685.2737 > > ......................................................... > > Follow Us On > > Facebook > > Google+ > > Web > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > Portfolio: > > http://www.tropicaltimber.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > HOT mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > Alex Barth > http://twitter.com/lxbarth > tel (+1) 202 250 3633 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/attachments/20121128/2fb280b4/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > End of HOT Digest, Vol 33, Issue 29 > *********************************** > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Alex Barth http://twitter.com/lxbarth tel (+1) 202 250 3633 _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
