As mentioned, I create the OSM lists, so I hope these neutral
observations help the discussion:
Yes, indeed the OSM list system works in as loose and free-wheeling
manner as possible along the support-but-not-control mission of the
OSMF. So unless I can think of a really strong reason, I just go ahead
and create whatever list is requested provided that it is in some way
OSM-related and that it is free for anyone to join and participate
subject to etiquette guidelines. I may nudge and suggest a bit, for
example a better name or pointing out a potential overlap with another
list, but that is all. To my recollection, I've only sought board
guidance once. For OSM Just Do It ethos, it works well.
However, I can see a number of reasons why a little time for HOT to
discuss and have a good collective strategy is a good thing:
1) We (OpenStreetMap) do draw a firm distinction between OSM and OSMF,
i.e. a broad community with fuzzy membership and a, well, bureaucratic
organisation with with specific finite membership. In line with that,
our osmf-* lists are only generated after broader discussion and may
involve board sanction. Should HOT reflect that distinction in some way?
2) When OpenStreetMap started, we did not explicitly consider branding.
So it is not always clear what "OpenStreetMap" refers to. That can be a
good thing, someone starts a weird project, it turns out to be useful
and is absorbed into the OSM universe. But it can be a bad thing if
someone represents themselves to governmental or commercial
organisations in a way that might be damaging to the overall project.
So, having a discussion over about some control over who and how folks
can use the word "HOT" or "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team" is worth having?
3) OSM lists on https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo**are easy. HOT
lists have an extra layer in that they are effectively being hosted by a
sister organisation that HOT has no control over. Should HOT have any
ground rules that I can be guided by?
Mike
On 10/07/2014 15:26, Severin Menard wrote:
Hi Heather,
I am a bit surprised by your reaction, it seems you do not know well
how the OSM lists work. Any group can ask OSMF (Mike Collinson is in
charge of this) to create one, about a specific topic and/or a
specific location. Here is the whole list of OSM talk lists:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/ for you to figure out.
As you can see, there are very specific lists like eg
Talk-gb-oxoncotswolds for Oxford, Oxfordshire and the Cotswolds in GB
or Talk-it-trentino for the Trentino in Italy. These lists have been
created by locals or people specifically interested in these regions;
creating it does not require the permission of an "upper list" that
would be the country one or the general talk list (without suffix).
Regarding your background, you could eg create an OSM-Ushahidi list to
discuss about the interactions between OSM and Ushahidi (and this
would not be a bad idea at all), knowing that many people would join.
Are you really suggesting setting a public, open OSM list allowing a
potential +200 million people to raise their voices on humanitarian
and development topics should have been decided by a board or people
outside them? Or that we should make a general survey (in English) to
state if Spanish, French, Portuguese or Swahili speakers will be
allowed or not to have a list in their language? This does not fit
with OSM. This hot list in French is actually something that is in the
minds and wished for years.
Otherwise I do take care about communicating about this when it
starts, this is the aim of my message, so that this larger (I mean
larger because many could not participate before in hot discussions
and now will join) community (and not separated communities) can
collaborate efficiently.
Hope these points are more clear for you.
Sincerely,
Severin
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Heather Leson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Sev, it would have been great to talk in person before setting up
a separate HOT list and community process.
For example, this was already a topic for the upcoming Board
meeting and definitely something we want to do right by really
consulting with the HOT community.
While I appreciate your initiative, collaboration and community
means communicating.
I'll be following up on this in the coming month.
Thank you
Heather
On Jul 10, 2014 7:33 AM, "Severin Menard"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi,
There is a openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org> hot
list now for French speaking people who do not have enough
English to participate to the hot (English) list, and they are
numerous not only in France (I think well-known to be one of
the worst English speaking countries :) but also in Africa and
in the Caribbeans. This would allow people from various OSM
communities especially in developing countries, to raise their
voices and interact more (or quicker, because basically
writing in foreign language takes more time) with the HOT/OSM
community regarding the humanitarian and development topics.
So far, when we wanted to interact on these topics in French,
we had to make emails with a long list of talk-country lists,
which is not really appropriate as it duplicates the same
messages in various talk lists.
This already exists for the dev lists: dev is in English by
default, and there is a French and an Italian one. As I guess
(I did not check) they do, there will be interactions between
the lists when it seems useful after a brainstorm, around an
action, a methodology or a new "discovery"; the people that
can interact in the two languages can bridge the lists. If
someone has experience on this, please tell.
I would suggest the Spanish native speakers from the HOT
community to create also a list as the community of native
Spanish speakers in the world is twice more numerous than
French. It would help during crisis like the ones in Bolivia
or in Chile last year.
For the suffix, a quick survey showed that a huge majority
preferred hot-francophone rather than hot-fr or hot-francais,
basically because it states clearly it is about the language
and not the country of origin, and this does count, especially
for the people from former French colonies.
For those interested, you can subscribe here:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot-francophone
I translated the description from English, just added a bit at
the end because the English text only talks about crisis
response, and does not mention development, what should be
rectified. The translation in English would be: "Apart from
crisis response, the list helps HOT to prepare resources and
improve its response, but also to discuss and set an OSM map
for development. For this as well, stakeholders and population
can send messages on the list (questions, opinions, requests,
discussions...)".
Sincerely,
Severin
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
