I would much prefer to see an officially approved method. People can give more thought to it but the basic idea of a workflow for simple tasks using JOSM I think is good. JOSM is easier than some people it credit for but more to the point we get less area=yes instead of buildings=yes, highways that almost meet, and duplicate buildings and anything that helps data quality get my vote.
Cheerio John On 8 March 2015 at 18:51, althio <althio.fo...@gmail.com> wrote: > John, Ray, > > I think the quick start guide is a very neat idea. I would need to try the > workflow and a few variations for myself. > > For the time being I only have reservations about the trick " > upload-and-cancel". It would be IMO simpler and better to guide people to > use consciously validation instead of faking an upload. (Validation window > and/or Shift+V) > > I would say this particular aspect of the workflow is not intended for > beginners (and idiots) because it is error-prone. (What if I am still > trying to figure out what needs to be mapped? I am a beginner and do not > know or understand the differences between projects and their > instructions... What if I upload bad data? I am an idiot...) > > I think you must learn to walk before you can run. This kind of tricks is > for people who want to map faster, understand the pros and cons, the > purpose and risks. > > > Anyway John, I fully agree your post is a nice starting point for this > kind of guide with an "approved" and proposed workflow for simple tasks. > Thank you Nick for safekeeping the idea. > > > althio > > > On Mar 7, 2015 8:43 AM, "Ray Kiddy" <r...@ganymede.org> wrote: > >> >> John - >> >> Wow. That was actually an amazing help. >> >> I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone >> doing it the first time without this level of detail. >> >> I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we >> have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to >> JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes >> sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a "grab" >> tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. >> >> And your "hit-update-but-dont" workflow is brilliant, but the fact that >> it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way.... Well, it >> suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. >> >> I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get >> where I need to go. >> >> It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is >> fantastic. >> >> Well, onward and upward. >> >> - ray >> >> >> On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 >> john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Right the basic idiot guide. >> > >> > First write down your OSM userid and password. >> > >> > For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. >> > Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we >> > like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. >> > >> > Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the >> > bottom. >> > >> > We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to >> > map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the >> > left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. >> > >> > Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. >> > Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical >> > order, click it and ignore the rest. >> > >> > go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 >> > >> > Read the instructions. >> > >> > Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. >> > >> > Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM >> > map for the tile. >> > >> > We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc >> > until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select >> > Bing. >> > >> > Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly >> > under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. >> > Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. >> > >> > Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 >> > meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right >> > corner and use <Crtl><down arrow> to scan the image. >> > >> > The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw >> > round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to >> > find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag >> > it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick >> > to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. >> > >> > The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. >> > >> > When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On >> > the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation >> > Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged >> > ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. >> > >> > In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. >> > >> > Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this >> > time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a >> > group. >> > >> > In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. >> > >> > Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this point. >> > >> > You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image filled in >> > and the HOT tile etc. >> > >> > Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM >> > warns you on uploading then tag them all at once. >> > >> > For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now find the >> > longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next >> > corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the other side. Click >> > once more and the building is done and correctly tagged for HOT. >> > >> > There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's objective is to get you >> > going productively quickly. >> > >> > Cheerio John >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 6 March 2015 at 15:07, Ray Kiddy <r...@ganymede.org> wrote: >> > >> > > On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500 >> > > john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was >> > > > mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings, >> > > > crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few inches etc. >> > > > >> > > > Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the >> > > > maximum benefit for the least effort. >> > > >> > > Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes. >> > > >> > > Perhaps you think I jest.... >> > > >> > > > Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the >> > > > convention is only the following values of highways are used for >> > > > minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if >> > > > you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the >> > > > secondary and primary highways. >> > > > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary> If >> > > > possible use JOSM especially for buildings. Please map buildings >> > > > as building=yes do not assume it is a house. >> > > >> > > As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I could do more), it can >> > > get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the Africa roads page >> > > but that page is hard to interpret for any particular context. >> > > There is a lot of information. >> > > >> > > And I hate to say it but I use ID and it drives me nuts. This may be >> > > from browser/js/platform issues. I am using Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu >> > > 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is somewhat bewildering >> > > and I have no idea how long it would take to get over the first >> > > humps of the learning curve. For now, my annoyances with ID are >> > > tolerable. >> > > >> > > If one was able to look at a task and see what tags where being used >> > > and how often within just that task, this might help the "African >> > > roads" situation. >> > > >> > > > People use maps to get from one place to another, if the highways >> > > > are joined up then routing software such as comes as part of >> > > > OSMAND can be used. Look for highways around settlements that >> > > > connect to other settlements. >> > > > >> > > > <Crtl><arrow> in JOSM will navigate vertically or horizontally >> > > > making scanning easier. >> > > >> > > I should see if there is a cheat sheet for JOSM. It would be nice to >> > > know what control-shift-elbox-J does and all that. Of course, these >> > > may be platform specific (eg Windows keys vs Linux keys vs MacOS X >> > > keys). >> > > >> > > > I assume that most of these errors have crept in because JOSM >> > > > validation was not used. I suspect that the immediate feedback >> > > > from JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers to improve their >> > > > skills. >> > > > >> > > > Cheerio John >> > > >> > > There needs to be validation on input and obviously both ID and >> > > JOSM do some, but can validation be done on the server? This would >> > > be better, especially if the results can be communicated to users. >> > > A HOT task could have a "Validations" tab. I, for one, would like >> > > to see the things that have been already fixed in data in that >> > > task. It would let me know when there are things not to do. If I am >> > > going to make a mistake within a task's maps, it is at least a bit >> > > likely that others will make or have made similar mistakes in the >> > > same context. >> > > >> > > Again, seeing the phrase "JOSM might assist our less skilled >> > > mappers", I have to wonder what you are thinking about here. Any >> > > sentence with both "JOSM" and "less skilled mappers" in it is going >> > > to lead to bad things. JOSM might be easier than it is, but I am >> > > not even very sure of that. Sometimes complex tasks require complex >> > > tools. One just hopes that there are options between the >> > > "very-simple-but-also-brain-dead" tool and the >> > > "amazingly-powerful-but-shockingly-unintuitive" tool. I am not >> > > saying that this is what JSOM and ID are, but hopefully you see my >> > > point. >> > > >> > > So, grump back at ya. :-) >> > > >> > > cheers - ray >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > HOT mailing list >> > > HOT@openstreetmap.org >> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> HOT mailing list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >> > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > >
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