On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mhairi O'Hara <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Severin, > > I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can > validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status, > after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their > mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being > able to map non-validated tasks. > I would also propose for a future Gsoc (or kindly ask MapBox people to think about an enhancement) something detecting in Id that objects tagged as buildings are not squared, because I would say 90% crappy edits come from this > > Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat > room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions > specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers' > could guide the beginners here too. > It has been discussed for a long time, it is likely documented in github, would be good to check with Pierre G about possible developments about this > > I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the Activation > process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible Activation WG > meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and tools that will > be able to assist. > > Cheers, > > Mhairi > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an extra >> step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a great >> asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data produced >> through the Activation. >> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is actually >> the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, please send >> an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access future TM jobs >> with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two folds (road >> network vs the rest). >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Severin >> >> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> NIck and I made this wikipage about it: >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data >>> >>> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job >>> and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on >>> the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area >>> and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not >>> correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and >>> republish the job. >>> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and >>> - clean everything with the validator >>> - add mssing objects >>> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network) >>> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network, >>> according to the agreed scheme) >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Severin >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. >>>> Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do >>>> it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, >>>> please do. >>>> >>>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge >>>> activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure >>>> we develop appropriate tools to support such activations. >>>> >>>> >>>> Pierre >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *De :* Severin Menard <[email protected]> >>>> *À :* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04 >>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an >>>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access >>>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this >>>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of >>>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task >>>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts? >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Severin >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Fellow mappers, >>>> >>>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a >>>> critical issue. However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes >>>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better >>>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof, >>>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain >>>> from contributing. >>>> >>>> Heather already started drafting training support. When we circulate >>>> the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link >>>> to local community's group for newbies to find help. People also wanted to >>>> create screencast for specific tasks. >>>> >>>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during >>>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually >>>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some >>>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to >>>> participate in a project others criticize: >>>> >>>> - Are the maps actually being used? >>>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or >>>> incomplete? >>>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery? >>>> >>>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community >>>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to >>>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you >>>> shouldn't do it". But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously >>>> to make HOT even more awesome. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> clkao >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT >>>> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest >>>> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line... >>>> >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is >>>> great. I know many of us started during an emergency. >>>> >>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was >>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are >>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So, >>>> I started another email chain about training help. >>>> >>>> Step by step, >>>> >>>> heather >>>> >>>> Heather Leson >>>> [email protected] >>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson >>>> Blog: textontechs.com >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long >>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great >>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors. >>>> >>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well >>>> the new contributors. >>>> >>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make >>>> to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and >>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce >>>> quality mapping. >>>> >>>> regard >>>> >>>> >>>> Pierre >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *De :* Andrew Buck <[email protected]> >>>> *À :* [email protected] >>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21 >>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> I understand the frustration. Some times the newbies do very bad, but >>>> some produce very good data as well. One thing that we can also do is >>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored >>>> download' plugin. You can then scan over a large area and just check >>>> the roads for major problems like you mention. Even just a few people >>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference. >>>> >>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map. >>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful >>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for >>>> other mappers. >>>> >>>> - -AndrewBuck >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote: >>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to >>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These >>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives >>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some >>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed >>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already >>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal >>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked >>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I >>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these >>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected >>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then >>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in >>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done >>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is >>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for >>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them >>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles >>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to >>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in >>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any >>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all" >>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows >>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that >>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as >>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are >>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can >>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the >>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant >>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have >>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to >>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more >>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this >>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun) >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list >>>> > [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> > >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVPsRiAAoJEK7RwIfxHSXb+jwQAMZhc8YlaIGFjM4sDfymuEMY >>>> bToXaaGT4zDC5lVdFzfDEs4/u5gNsolRWyuN3jMa+tMPCDmABBOehWdywAEN3zqi >>>> EItL6RmXn6rzOoglfGUHC26QkeI3l6nA359IbR9YL8vLld2QNGv7fqsXa6zoObp7 >>>> /wmpXG/V9Chwf4ywtFo+eEGMvpDEykXM3fD0CLhHzNrex7iD+43O2LhZUN3kykrs >>>> unzREelpbuulpw9zhBa8tfBYNGZLj1slC3YyLomOaBS0Tr85Jarloa1KS2fkj6ye >>>> BF9M5F2+eXUv5I78dIt9LmloTZzcoSWJAlJkwmkykaj3uqqFBmjs16J1UWzHofFe >>>> pB218inZmo+ZhgzmElg/AgjppQvl276GYP0S/yFkmB/pOkAR5jBvw4r2SddzOeIb >>>> dYh4Wh0vh3sJn9FxXzWivj9qZvAwXsXggnRTyLoXOAaFCUYZTfX10nr0mdy5VjHA >>>> XGHZNGlyRjSC1yCLYQMrwmOUprbrD5qfv3I3uxOXuYqhu4SGvTHdKJe+vKLeAn9R >>>> QWnvqmd0OJ5ek7gu9z/AsGo3xHr8s5TJpiyKowUvRlxix5J04GOIHrW9srrxkD1w >>>> 9InB8+y4rrASNg1ylIrAcyxBe8ZLYgDgNKGOuSsMPL37Bnu2JwBfzksyzzPmEBAy >>>> 348dbGr81F22yS3kf9FX >>>> =Xj3x >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Pete Masters* >>>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator >>>> +44 7921 781 518 >>>> >>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/> >>>> >>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> >>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> >>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Activation Working Group" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > > -- > Mhairi O'Hara > Technical Project Manager > Email: [email protected] > Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475 > > *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team * > *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development* > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > >
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