OSM has a page of recommended tags,
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features. Sometimes these are
used sometimes not. http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/ has information
on how common a tag is and is some times used to determine which tag
should be used. This is a bottom up approach rather than the top down
approach more usual in the business world.
For example many of the mappers locally are enthusiastic cyclists but
the recommended tags for cycle paths have been formulated in Europe,
in Canada we have some cycle paths / lanes that are used for cyclists
in summer and we dump snow on them in winter. There is a local
convention for how these are tagged.
With a conventional database you usually have a client in mind and
they have specific requirements. OSM doesn't. If someone wants to
map hairdressers that's fine as far as OSM is concerned they have
contributed to the map. Locally many tags were in OSM that wouldn't
render on conventional rendering systems, no one else used the tags
and the renderers just ignored them. Many mappers have their own
personal views about how something should be tagged and have no
interest in following any other suggestions at all. It is an issue.
HOT is much more structured, we actually have clients with
requirements in mind so we map to those as best we can. Â We have
recommended tags and to a much larger extent people follow them. We
do have a lot of new mappers who may not even know about the map
features page or find that reading through more than two lines of
instructions boring. Having a two step process with validation helps
as well. However we still rely on locals on the ground mappers for
more detail and as far as I'm concerned if they want to map video
games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate, volleyball or football fields
that's fine, they might map something else of use whilst they are
mapping or introduce someone else who might map something more useful
to us.
What the agencies like is that we can map places very quickly which is
better than no maps. Also we are very cost effective, I was going to
say cheap but that has quality implications. They can add their own
specific tags without having to go through a formal standards
committee. Typically it takes five years to get something through the
ISO standards process. Currently in the background I believe HOT
going through a "standard's process" as we progress. Nepal has had a
big impact on HOT, Ebola came earlier in the spring and is still
around, but the scale of mapping in Nepal has caused a rethink about
how we do things including training, things are becoming more
formalised but having said that I don't think it will ever be totally
rigid.
Cheerio John
On 20 May 2015 at 11:32, althio <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
Springfield,
Sorry for the partial answer and I don't mean to be harsh because I
know things around here are not easy to find and understand. We all
need pointers and FAQ or homepages and portals...
My point is... I do think that you are somehow confused between
OpenStreetMap and HOT:
***
OSM aka OpenStreetMap, the project, its database, its goals, its
community
  - [http <http://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome>
://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome>] OpenStreetMap, the free
and editable map of the world
  - [http <http://www.openstreetmap.org/about>
://www.openstreetmap.org/about
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/about>] OpenStreetMap is built by a
community of mappers that contribute and maintain data about roads,
trails, cafés, railway stations, and much more (note: also video
games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and volleyball...) (note2: also
boundaries, hospitals, schools), all over the world.
see also OSM Foundation, the entity to support the project
  - http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page
***
HOT aka Humanitarian OSM Team is using a subset of OSM database and
building on it, its own goals (some overlap with OSM), its own
community (some overlap with OSM)
  - [http <http://hotosm.org/>://hotosm.org/
<http://hotosm.org/>] The Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team [HOT]
applies the principles of open source and open data sharing for
humanitarian response and economic development.
  - [http <http://hotosm.org/about> ://hotosm.org/about
<http://hotosm.org/about>]
  - [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team]
***
Back to OSM and "tag soup" database. This is a rather hard and
technical topic, and not really related to HOT and this list. You will
not find the answer here, nor the most interested or skilled people.
HOT uses and contributes to the database, HOT does not control it.
A few more words anyway? ("I am not a lawyer" and "I am not a
database expert").
OSM database is open, free, public, iterative and rather rich.
OSM database is not fixed, not complete, not comprehensive, not
homogeneous (spatially at least).
The philosophy and structure have their own advantages and
disadvantages compared to existing datasets.
Please appreciate the uniqueness, value and potential of OSM database
before you try to make it a clone of something existing.
All the best,
 - althio
On 19 May 2015 at 21:38, Springfield Harrison
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hello Stefan & Blake,
>
> I concur with the comments about the "tag soup" mess. As I have
mentioned
> before, I am new to this OSM environment but have some years
experience with
> GPS and GIS mapping and database design.
>
> To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered that the OSM
database design
> looked like a glorified scratchpad. I just downloaded and
inspected 366,017
> OSM database records. There were 18 Key Terms and scores of
values. I
> extracted the unique combinations of keys/values and ended up
with 388
> records of those.
>
> It is difficult to describe the results in detail as patterns
are very hard
> to see with this system. Suffice it to say, there is an
abundance of
> overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a confusing intermingling of
features and
> attributes. Using traditional methods of querying a database,
it would be
> impossible to definitively extract a meaningful subset of any of
the 366,000
> records. Generally speaking, the problem is that one feature may be
> described in many different ways that are not consistent.
>
> Having said all that, since I frequently hear how well all this
mapping
> information is received in the field, I must conclude that this
mishmash of
> tagging somehow creates a usable end product. It may well be
that I am not
> aware of magic techniques that bring order to all this chaotic
tagging.
> However, if it works, it is good. However I do believe that it
will work
> better with a more robust database.
>
> Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in decades of looking at
database
> structures for both geographical and administrative
applications, I have
> never seen such a jumble of terminology.
>
> Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a more appropriate
Data
> Dictionary that generally parallels the best practices in
database design.
> I have found this approach to be very useful, and also useful in
the field,
> since being introduced to it by Trimble Navigation in the early 90s.
>
> I am impressed with the enthusiasm that permeates the crowd GIS
initiative
> but concerned that the geographical and database underpinnings
may be less
> than ideal. My observation from creating a few software
applications, is
> that the lesser trained are the users, the much greater
investment there
> needs to be in the user interface and training. GIS and GPS
data collection
> is not particularly intuitive.
>
> My approach in projects of this kind is always to start at the
far end with
> the users - what information are they wanting for whatever it is
that they
> do? Then I look at the reporting requirements and finally
design the data
> collection process to feed into that.
>
> In the case of this emergency relief operation, I'm hard-pressed
to see the
> value in mapping video games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and
> volleyball. To be fair, many of the other attributes could have
value in
> providing relief services but in the record set that I
downloaded, there
> seems to be little information related to the emergency relief
effort. In
> over 366,000 records there are only 19 marked as aeroway = helipad.
>
> I'm not sure just how thorough you intend to be with the "updating,
> streamlining and regularizing" but I would be happy to help
where possible.
>
> It would probably not be overly difficult to substitute a new
> feature/attribute catalogue into the OSM database. Translating
the existing
> mass of keys and values to their new equivalent might be more
challenging.
> Databases succeed because they conform to standard pattern sets.
>
> Again, sorry to be less than enthusiastic but perhaps things can be
> improved.
>
>Â Â Â Â Â Thanks for your patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring
Harrison
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
