Re: [Hpr] Rejecting a show on the grounds that it is "using HPR as a means to push a particular product or view"

[Steve Saner via Hpr]

At this point, I am not convinced that, based on the current policies 
and practices of HPR, that the episode in question should be rejected.

For full disclosure, I assume that my world view is more or less 
adjacent to that of the contributors, based only on the transcript. I 
therefore was not offended by the content, but I can understand why 
others might be. Nonetheless you can filter my comments through this 
disclosure if you so choose.

One reason given for why this show might be rejected is that it doesn't 
align with HPR content. That it isn't of interest to hackers. However, 
the criteria that a show should be of interest to hackers has been 
purposefully left extremely wide open. I feel that it has been implied 
many times that there really is no bar to what can be considered of 
interest to hackers. And, while most episodes do include some element of 
tech or what you might consider hacker material, many examples can be 
found that don't. And the fact that this contribution is religious in 
nature can't be an exception to that standard unless there is a policy 
that states that.

The other major reason given for why this show should be rejected is 
that it qualifies as spam. And specifically it has been said that what 
makes it spam is that it is "using HPR as a means to push a particular 
product or view". My first question is, where does that definition of 
spam come from exactly? I can't find any reference to it on the HPR web 
site. But, assuming that it is a good and valid definition of spam, I 
wonder how it applies to the episode in question. What product or view 
is being pushed? I find no words to the effect of, "you should believe 
this" or "if you don't agree then you are..." The listener isn't advised 
to join a particular religion or denomination. There is no direct 
admonition against a different religion. From what I read, the 
contributors are quoting some verses and commenting on what they mean to 
them. If that is pushing a particular product or view, then what HPR 
episode is not guilty of the same?

That said, I do know that in religion and politics emotions can run very 
high and people often do get carried away and do push agendas and views 
and in doing so often denigrate those you have different views. So I can 
see why this contribution may feel like that, but I don't think the 
transcript I read is objectively any different than reading words about 
the nature of Linux and then commenting on what that means to them and 
why they like it and encouraging others to try it.

Another definition of spam that has been mentioned is that the 
contributor posted this episode just for kicks to see what kind of 
response they get or to troll the community. Again, I know that trolling 
is common with religious or political messages, so I can see why this 
episode may feel that way. But I get no objective sense of that from the 
transcript. This is, however, a place where listening to the audio might 
give a different impression. The tone of delivery could betray that kind 
of motivation.

So, as stated above, I have not yet heard a reason that compels me, 
under the policies and practices of HPR, to say that this episode should 
be rejected. That said, I do share some of the sentiments expressed by 
others that I don't really want to see HPR become full of this kind of 
content. Even if I agree 100% with what is being said, I don't generally 
feel like HPR is the place where I would choose to share it. Many forums 
do have explicit rules against the posting of religious or political 
content to deal with this. And I wouldn't be opposed to HPR developing a 
slightly more restrictive definition of what is of interest to hackers.

As I was perusing the HPR website to remind myself of what is and isn't 
stated regarding censorship and spam, I found several references to 
episode 2210 :: On Freedom of Speech and Censorship 
(https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps/hpr2210/index.html). I re-listened to 
that episode and was reminded of a previous episode that was posted and 
accepted, but did generate some controversy. I just don't see how this 
episode is fundamentally different than that one.

Best Regards
Steve




On 7/29/2025 8:59 AM, nigelverity--- via Hpr wrote:
I didn't find the content offensive so much as irrelevant to HPR, and 
therefore not valid material.

A show in which somebody proudly proclaims their religious affiliations 
- of whatever flavour - while describing the tech tools they use to 
spread "the word" would get the HPR tick in the box in my view, because 
it covers ground likely to be of interest to the majority of HPR 
listeners due to its unmistakable tech content.

There is, of course, a grey area here. Should every show without some 
demonstrable tech content or angle be barred? There have been plenty 
over the years, and often they've been very enjoyable listening, too.

Tech content should still not be the ultimate determinant, though. If, 
for example, somebody reviewed a distro and then said in all seriousness 
that if you do not use "XYZ Linux" then you deserve to die painfully and 
rot in hell, the tech aspect of the show surely would not save it. A 
slightly extreme example, I know, but I think it illustrates my point....



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------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Hpr <hpr-boun...@lists.hackerpublicradio.com> on behalf of Mike 
Ray via Hpr <hpr@lists.hackerpublicradio.com>
*Sent:* 29 July 2025 13:47
*To:* hpr@lists.hackerpublicradio.com <hpr@lists.hackerpublicradio.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Hpr] Rejecting a show on the grounds that it is "using 
HPR as a means to push a particular product or view"



Religion has absolutely no place on HPR IMHO.

And any religious speech that denigrates any other faith apart from that
of the speaker doubly so.

Keep the one thing that has killed more people since time immemorial off
HPR.





On 29/07/2025 13:30, Claudio Miranda via Hpr wrote:
Hi all,

So, I'd been thinking about this one for a bit before I replied. I
even had a talk with Ken about this because I personally think it
should be allowed. Even though it was rough reading the transcript
Whisper generated, having seen something similar generated for other
forms of belief (or non-belief) systems didn't really change my mind
much. Had something been submitted with a similar structure as what
was generated, I wouldn't have had an issue with it. Despite my
Christian beliefs, I am open to hearing such things from other
religions or even humanists to get a perspective on things and to
understand why they believe (or don't believe) in such things (part of
my hacker mentality, I guess). The only possible line I draw is with
what would generally be considered occultic, with some exceptions (it
depends on context), but I digress. If it was on something that really
didn't interest me or something I'm spiritually averse to, I would
have stopped and skipped the episode entirely.

If maybe a disclaimer or a better description of what was being
discussed, allowing the listener to choose whether or not to listen to
the content, would have been better. Still, there have been other
episodes in the past that have posted a particular title and summary
on what the content would be, and then talking maybe 5 minutes about
it and going on a tangent for the rest of the episode of things that
weren't what the title or summary mentioned, and yes, there was some
proselytizing during that tangent (more political than religious). I
was miffed at being duped by the title, but I listened anyway until I
just couldn't anymore. I guess that's me, though.

However, the title and summary of this episode were clear, and I
didn't feel that anything was being pushed. However, if it does
violate the rules for HPR, then I concede in spite of my disagreement
on it in this instance. Of course, this would then have to apply to
all episodes of similar structure, or anything that "pushes a
particular product or view." Some people have submitted episodes
reviewing certain products that they have, and I haven't felt those
episodes as being pushing something on me. I can't remember if
anything was recommended on any of those, but would a recommendation
episode be considered as spam for pushing a particular product or
view, even if it was of interest to hackers? I know that one episode
from that one submitter did, and without a clear title or summary.
Why, then, was that allowed? If it was before the rule was in place, I
understand. But then it has to be a rule for all, not some.

Thanks for taking the time to read my ramble. :-p

-Claudio


On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 4:34 AM Ken Fallon via Hpr
<hpr@lists.hackerpublicradio.com> wrote:

Can the people who requested a transcript please give your feedback to the list.

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2025-07-25 14:05, Ken Fallon via Hpr wrote:

Forgot to mention that if anyone wants the transcript, then ping me and I'll 
forward on a redacted version.

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2025-07-25 11:12, Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi All,

This is to inform you that I am rejecting a show on the grounds that it falls under 
"hate speech/spam/using HPR as a means to push a particular product or view".

This came to light when I was scrubbing through the audio when posting the show. This is allowed by the policy We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of the audio you submit, we trust you not to upload anything that will harm HPR. Aside from checking snippets for audio quality/spam checking, we have a policy 
that we don't listen to the shows before they are aired.

The show itself would best be described as a religious sermon. Given that is a particularly sensitive topic, I have consulted with some HPR elders who have publicly shared their belief or lack their of, to get their opinion. They unanimously agreed that it is spam, in the sense of "using HPR as a means to push a particular 
product or view".

The point has been made that it "could be of interest to hackers", however the full policy is: There is no restriction on how long the show can be, nor on the topic you can cover as long as they are not spam and "are of interest to Hackers", so that doesn't apply in the case of spam. There will always be someone who will click 
on a spam link, or the business model would not work.

We are a Tech Podcast dedicated to sharing knowledge, and we are not stopping 
anyone talking about their views on religion, politics, sex, distro of editor 
of choice, etc.. That is part of who we are, and it informs us as people.

However this is also a Hacker Space, not a place of worship. That said I have been happy to see many shows where people have been working on something for their place of worship, and have received support and assistance from people who were not of that faith. We are a welcoming community that offers positive feedback and 
encourages respectful debate.

So if you have something to say then say it. Ideally in the form of a show, as 
I'm currently posting yet another three shows from the Reserve queue ;-(

Links

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--
Regards,

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--
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He/him

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when
there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery


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