Hugin in itself is not commercial but if you are making panoramas
using Hugin and SIFT and selling the panoramas, that is a commercial
use of SIFT.  If you are making them for fun, that isn't a commercial
use.

Patents take time to be issued so it is not uncommon for research to
be released before a patent is granted but it may have been applied
for much earlier.

On Dec 22, 8:30 pm, Dale Beams <[email protected]> wrote:
> As I recall, SIFT was released prior to patent or permission (research would 
> have to be done).  How it was released prior to the Uni bringing it back so 
> to speak.
>
> Are the derivatives based from the original release?
>
> Commercial would have to be defined.  Hugin may not qualify as a commercial 
> applications because no monetary exchanged has been made.
>
> Because Hugin and it's ability to use outside source builds or binaries of 
> these programs are non-commercial, Hugin could conceivably include these in 
> thier programs and be free and clear
>
> Cheers ... :)
>
> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:46:53 -0800
> > Subject: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
>
> > SIFT and SURF prohibit commercial application without a license (or
> > waiver in the case of SURF).  From the SIFT site:
>
> >http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~lowe/keypoints/
> > This demo software is provided for research purposes only. A license
> > must be obtained from the University of British Columbia for any
> > commercial applications. The sofware is protected under a US patent as
> > listed below. This demo software is a research implementation, while
> > the licensed software has been further optimized for speed and to
> > provide a range of other capabilities. See the LICENSE file provided
> > with the demo software.
>
> > From the SURF page (interesting that the SURF page says it is
> > copyrighted but there is no mention of a patent)
>
> >http://www.vision.ee.ethz.ch/~surf/download.html
> > SURF is noncommercial. You may not use this work for commercial
> > purposes. For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others
> > the license terms of this work. Any of these conditions can be waived
> > if you get written permission from the copyright holder.
>
> > However, the third party SIFT and SURF implementations are less clear
> > but then they don't own the patents.
>
> > On Dec 22, 7:16 pm, Dale Beams <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > The real question is, does the SIFT or SURF patent author allow or 
> > > disallow the use of the patent without payment?
>
> > > There are many software patents within the Free Software Foundation and 
> > > others in which use of that patent requires no monetary reimbursement.
>
> > > Perhaps the patent obligations should be stated in the source and/or 
> > > binary of the download.
>
> > > Simply because it's patented does not mean that it requires payment from 
> > > the author.
>
> > > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:03:07 -0800
> > > > Subject: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions
> > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > To: [email protected]
>
> > > > No.  My bottom line is that if you use a patented algorithm to make a
> > > > panorama for profit without paying the inventor of the algorithm, can
> > > > you be outraged if your panorama is used by others without payment to
> > > > you.  I do not support a per scene fee such as iPix had and the
> > > > inventors of SIFT do not appear to be requesting that.  I can deal
> > > > with being flamed.  That seems to be typical when someone points out
> > > > the emperor has no clothes.
>
> > > > On Dec 22, 6:19 am, "[email protected]"
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > The bottom line is that he is afraid to tell those patent holders that
> > > > > he is willing to pay them for every image he stitched using their
> > > > > methods. So, he came here to get general public support, but got flame
> > > > > instead. And now he is in double trouble being alone with his shame of
> > > > > using patented method and do not pay for them and without any general
> > > > > public support. He will not sleep well now. ;-)
>
> > > > > DaveN, if you so sure that patented products need to be honored and 
> > > > > fees
> > > > > payed, go ahead and pay them. Why do you need everyones opinion about
> > > > > it. Not that I am against patented products, but against childish
> > > > > position of individual: "If majority doing it this way it is good and 
> > > > > I
> > > > > should follow them". I am sure if you would live in China your mind 
> > > > > set
> > > > > would be different. What you are going to do with this general public
> > > > > support? Show group's threads in a court?
>
> > > > > Leonid
>
> > > > > Dale Beams wrote:
> > > > > > The question is who is SURF patented by?  By a university or an 
> > > > > > individual?
>
> > > > > > There are many patents within the linux/gpl community.  However 
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > are organizations who have purchased and protect those patents 
> > > > > > against
> > > > > > litigation, opening up use for everyone.
>
> > > > > > Patents are being used to protect open source, gpl, and linux in
> > > > > > general, and still allow the use of those patents to anybody.
>
> > > > > > Isn't this the same thing that SIFT and SURF have done?
>
> > > > > >  > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:19:25 +0100
> > > > > >  > Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions
> > > > > >  > From: [email protected]
> > > > > >  > To: [email protected]
>
> > > > > >  > 2009/12/18 DaveN <[email protected]>:
> > > > > >  > > I thought SURF was also patented but maybe it is only the
> > > > > >  > > implementation that is copyrighted.  I don't know for sure.  
> > > > > > It would
> > > > > >  > > be nice to see a patent-free control generator for Hugin 
> > > > > > though.  I am
> > > > > >  > > not a programmer so I wouldn't be much help.  Here is the wiki 
> > > > > > page:
>
> > > > > >  > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SURF
>
> > > > > >  > > but you may have that already.
>
> > > > > >  > You are still messing things up. SURF (the algorithm) is 
> > > > > > patented. You
> > > > > >  > can patent algorithm (in meaning of technical procedure), but 
> > > > > > honestly
> > > > > >  > there is only slight difference between patented algorithm and
> > > > > >  > software patent so it may not be valid everywhere. But speaking 
> > > > > > about
> > > > > >  > the software (implementation) the copyright law applies.
>
> > > > > >  > > On Dec 18, 9:41 am, Dale Beams <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >  > >> On that note, have you considered the SURF algorithm?
>
> > > > > >  > >> It appears that SURF is closed source as well, but there 
> > > > > > appears
> > > > > > to be an "OpenSURF".
>
> > > > > >  > >> This would be an interesting research topic. One of Hugin's 
> > > > > > goals
> > > > > > is to produce it's own auto cp detector or use a GPL version of one.
>
> > > > > >  > >> Drop a note back on SURF.  I'm interested in knowing what you 
> > > > > > find.
>
> > > > > >  > >> > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:20:46 -0800
> > > > > >  > >> > Subject: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions
> > > > > >  > >> > From: [email protected]
> > > > > >  > >> > To: [email protected]
>
> > > > > >  > >> > <<But I wonder, why are you asking about these patent and/or
> > > > > > copyrighy
> > > > > >  > >> > infringement issues?>>
>
> > > > > >  > >> > It is something that has been bothering me for a long time 
> > > > > > and never
> > > > > >  > >> > really has been discussed in the open.  To me, the inventor 
> > > > > > of the
> > > > > >  > >> > SIFT algorithm deserves some benefit for his work but isn't 
> > > > > > really
> > > > > >  > >> > getting it.  Sure SIFT has his University's approval for 
> > > > > > use in non-
> > > > > >  > >> > commercial work but that seems to be taken by many a bit 
> > > > > > liberally.
>
> > > > > >  > >> > << To me, at first, it was like you are planning to
> > > > > >  > >> > release a derivative of Hugin yourself, but apparently I 
> > > > > > was wrong
> > > > > >  > >> > (which is good). Did you spot a Hugin rip-off somewhere? >>
>
> > > > > >  > >> > You are right in that I have no plans on releasing a 
> > > > > > derivative of
> > > > > >  > >> > Hugin and I don't know of any Hugin rip-offs.  I have been
> > > > > > evaluating
> > > > > >  > >> > options for Mac 10.6 and it looks like Autopano Pro is my 
> > > > > > only
> > > > > >  > >> > alternative if I want to use SIFT.
>
> > > > > >  > >> > On Dec 18, 8:53 am, Bart van Andel <[email protected]> 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >  > >> > > On 18 dec, 16:33, DaveN <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > >  > >> > > > Regardless, I seem to be beating a dead horse here.  It 
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > clear the
> > > > > >  > >> > > > feeling here, IMHO, is 'I follow the rules I see fit, 
> > > > > > ignore
> > > > > > the ones
> > > > > >  > >> > > > I don't see as fit, and have no issue in expecting that 
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > work will
> > > > > >  > >> > > > not be infringed upon.'
>
> > > > > >  > >> > > Luckily, that's just your opinion.
>
> > > > > >  > >> > > But I wonder, why are you asking about these patent and/or
> > > > > > copyrighy
> > > > > >  > >> > > infringement issues? To me, at first, it was like you are
> > > > > > planning to
> > > > > >  > >> > > release a derivative of Hugin yourself, but apparently I 
> > > > > > was wrong
> > > > > >  > >> > > (which is good). Did you spot a Hugin rip-off somewhere?
>
> > > > > >  > >> > > --
> > > > > >  > >> > > Bart
>
> > > > > >  > >> > --
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> > > > > > at:http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ
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> > > > > > [email protected]
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> > > > > >  > >> > For more options, visit this group
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>
> > > > > >  > >> 
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