Hear! Hear!

On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Augusto de Ornellas Abreu <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Come on, don't be like that!
>
> NO ONE here discouraged building, we just told the ORIGINAL poster that
> his perspective of building himself a gurdy for less than a very affordable
> kit, with enough profit margin to sell it for 1200 was not a realistic goal
> to have.
>
> People on my side of the discussion made the point (with actual figures to
> support it) that one should build for the fun and personal satisfaction
> behind the endeavour, but not to get his hands on a cheap instrument. HG
> makers do NOT work with a wide enough margin to make it self-evident and
> certain that anyone with some tools and some woodworking experience would
> be able to - in his first attempt - make himself an actual working gurdy
> (and not a HGLO) for much less that someone with a fully equipped shop, all
> jigs and molds already properly made and spare parts already made and
> fitted (bushings, bearings, tangents, etc).
>
> What there is no place here for is this kind of immaturity that interprets
> a very good discussion with great points being made on BOTH sides of the
> argument and twists it immensely, taking it personally and distorting the
> whole point.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:48 PM, timw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Description     The general subject of the list is hurdy-gurdies: their
>> music, players, maintenance, recordings, events, construction, and
>> anything else that seems pertinant. We welcome discussion of all
>> aspects of the instrument.
>>
>> This group seems to delight in not supporting construction, but rather
>> discourage it. I am the obvious newcomer here and this hasn't been a
>> welcoming group.
>>
>> You can sigh comfortably, this is my final post.  Tim, newcomer and
>> amateur luthier.
>>
>> On Oct 30, 9:52 pm, Felicia Dale <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Well said, Leonard.
>> >
>> > Felicia.
>> >
>> > On Oct 29, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Leonard Williams wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >        I built my own hurdy gurdy after years of longing to own one
>> > > without the means of purchase.  I had some experience with
>> > > woodworking, some good tools (power and hand), and very good plans
>> > > for an early renaissance model purchased from a professional
>> > > builder.  Because of the bizarre grain of the wood I had (American
>> > > elm), I had trouble finding someone willing to surface the wood (a
>> > > rough plank) to my dimensions;  I had to rough it on a table saw and
>> > > get final thicknesses with a hand plane and scrapers.  With some
>> > > patient telephone coaching from the designer of the instrument I was
>> > > able build a simple (no trompette, single chanter, 3 drone) hurdy
>> > > gurdy.  Howerever, it was a number of years before I finally got the
>> > > “finished” instrument set up satisfactorily  (This forum was a great
>> > > help in the final stages!).
>> > >         I am no longer sure of the material costs, but it was far
>> > > less than a professionally built instrument.  I am proud of the
>> > > result of my labors, and builcing my gurdy fulfilled a desperate
>> > > need.  BUT—would I do it again?  I think not—I’d try to save up and
>> > > buy one from a craftsman/artist who knows what he’s doing.  This is
>> > > certainly not intended to discourage anyone from trying to build a
>> > > hurdy gurdy or any instrument on his own—by all means try it if you
>> > > really want to!  I learned a lot from the experience and do not
>> > > regret it—just be aware that it requires a good deal of patience.
>> > > There is an element to instrument building that is purely
>> > > mechanical, but every collection of wooden parts is an organic
>> > > entity which requires its own peculiar tweaking to become a musical
>> > > instrument.
>> >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Leonard Williams
>> > >            _
>> > >          [: :]
>> > >         / |  | \
>> > >        |  |  |  |
>> > >        (_==_)
>> > >            !~¿
>> >
>> > > On 10/26/11 4:46 PM, "Steven Tucker" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> Ulrich, why would want this discussion to stop?  It's getting
>> > >> really interesting.  There is considerable knowledge and talent
>> > >> here on this forum and I think the subject of "Affordable Hurdy
>> > >> Gurdy Construction" is worth delving into.  I guess I'm assuming
>> > >> that someone who is looking into building their own gurdy will
>> > >> search this forum and discover this thread an so it's appropriate
>> > >> to discuss the costs and ramifications of attempting to build one
>> > >> from scratch within a budget.
>> >
>> > >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Kazimierz Verkmastare
>> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >>> Alden, I hope you don't mind me using you for an example.
>> >
>> > >>> Steve, will you agree with this statement - "If what you want is
>> > >>> an Olympic Chinook, then you shouldn't expect, unless you are Cali
>> > >>> and Alden, to be able to build one for less than they do.  They
>> > >>> have streamlined production and amortized costs, and probably
>> > >>> can't lower costs (materials + labor + tools) further."
>> >
>> > >> I would actually say that if what you want is an Olympic Chinook
>> > >> then you shouldn't expect to be able to build one at all unless
>> > >> you're Cali and Alden.  Now if you were an experienced luthier and
>> > >> had an actual Olympic Chinook in front of you, and were experienced
>> > >> and proficient at top voicing, then you might expect to be able to
>> > >> make a reasonably good copy, but not for less than they do.
>> >
>> > >>>   So say you want a Chinook, if you are as skilled and
>> > >>> knowledgable as the Hackmans, you can build yourself one for
>> > >>> probably $1700 or $1800, real cost. (Don't remove labor cost from
>> > >>> the equation - your time is worth it).
>> >
>> > >> I agree with almost everything you've been saying except the part
>> > >> about counting labor time as real cost.  Now this is true if we're
>> > >> talking about someone who is thinking about going into business of
>> > >> making hurdy gurdies to sell, but if I want to spend my unpaid time
>> > >> on learning about and building a hurdy gurdy, and don't buy premium
>> > >> AAAA luthierie woods, then my total cash outlay for a Chinook-like
>> > >> hurdy gurdy would be around $300 or less -- even accounting for
>> > >> precision bushings and a shaft from McMaster Carr and a AA spruce
>> > >> top from Luthier's Mercantile.
>> >
>> > >> The expensive exotic hardwoods and highly figured woods that
>> > >> luthiers use in their instruments don't have anything to do with
>> > >> the sound quality or stability of the instrument.  ( I could launch
>> > >> into a huge discussion proving this statement, but it's already
>> > >> been hashed out quite thoroughly in many forums and technical
>> > >> papers.) Beautiful wood is an artistic choice.
>> >
>> > >> [...]
>> >
>> > >>> Tools?  You don't need tools.  A pocketknife, a piece of broken
>> > >>> window glass, a hacksaw blade nailed to a bent willow twig, a
>> > >>> carpenter's pencil and a leather punch, that's all you need,
>> > >>> right?  No.
>> >
>> > >> I would contend that all you need is a bow saw with a thin blade
>> > >> and a thick blade, a luthier's knife (made from an old file), a
>> > >> steel scraper, a drill, and possibly a wood carvers gouge.
>> > >> (Assuming you buy the shaft, bushings, and top wood).
>> > >> [...]
>> >
>> > >>> [...] But a player who wants a good instrument but can't afford
>> > >>> one and has little woodworking skills does not stand a great
>> > >>> chance of success in building a great gurdy fast and with only a
>> > >>> couple of hundred bucks to throw at the project.  And those are
>> > >>> the folks we address here.
>> >
>> > >>  A few years back, at a music camp, I met a very excellent gurdy
>> > >> player who had built his own.  It had a great sound, easily
>> > >> comparable to the $5000 range instruments also at camp.  It was the
>> > >> first instrument he ever built (he was about 24 years old), and he
>> > >> made it using only hand tools and a power drill in his apartment
>> > >> living room.  The body was a converted $10 classical guitar, the
>> > >> shaft and bearings were wood, and the wheel was made from a scrap
>> > >> of Baltic Birch plywood.  It was quite fascinating to watch the
>> > >> "nose in the air" disdain from other gurdy players turn to
>> > >> mortification when they realized that this disreputable looking
>> > >> instrument made their very expensive showpiece sound like a thinly
>> > >> wailing rodent. (their words, not mine, said in good jest I'm sure.)
>> > >> This kid wasn't a genius, didn't come from a professional
>> > >> woodworking family, had only had the experience of playing on a
>> > >> friends gurdy "a few times".  He told me it took him about two
>> > >> weeks of evenings to put together and the hardest part was cutting
>> > >> the key guides and getting the dog to buzz right.
>> >
>> > >> -S
>> >
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