_____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 21 December 2012 07:36 To: Digest Recipients Subject: [HG-new] Digest for [email protected] - 4 Messages in 2 Topics Today's Topic Summary Group: <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics * Christmas music. the Horses Branle [3 Updates] * irish dancing [1 Update] <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/2776b212d38c1a11> Christmas music. the Horses Branle Tania <[email protected]> Dec 20 03:53PM -0800
Well said, Arle. I agree wholeheartedly, especially in the case of the Chevaux, which is, basically, a nice tune for a very boring dance. The other tune Michael refers to, le branle de l'official (to which G. R. Woodward set his "Ding Dong Merrily on High" lyric) is, in contrast, a tune which is fun and satisfying to play at any tempo. The dance itself is also fun. I've always enjoyed playing Official at whatever speed suits whomever I'm playing with, be they musicians or dancers, while with Chevaux, there's always the inclination to keep stepping up the speed to keep musicians and dancers alike from falling asleep![These tunes/dances are meant to be entertaining not boring, and I have seen this done in France with great fun and energy. Arbeaux clearly states that you my make any suitable variations, you can paw the ground whenever you like ( a good place might be bars . 3&4 of section 2) If you wish to turn it into a masque you can wear a horses head & neigh!.). And the drummer will add suitable rhythms too).. but there must be a formal element too, with no one being crazy. But work to create interest! As for the melody, if it is in g minor the only accidental is the penultimate F#. on one of your videos someone has clearly misunderstood the clef and so it is completely wrong. I apologize for not giving the source in my original posting, but I mistakenly assumed that anyone interested in this genre would be acquainted with the literature. I try not to make assumptions and everything I write is based on four decades of music making, lecturing, writing, teaching and study. So when I am thought to be didactic & inflexible it actually has a sound basis. I have tried to offer general basic musicianship to players in the uk but they seem to prefer working from half knowledge. If you are only half way up a mountain you can't see the peak, and when you are there you see yet another. Gradus ad parnassum (Carnival of the animals). Most people prefer to bivouac in the low alps. The basis of making music (as opposed to just playing notes) is a firm sense of pulse and a sense of musical direction. The way the notes are joined is important too, as Quantz pointed out: the notes should not be glued together. I leave you to take your musical pleasure, but I must to bed. Michael I thank all parties who have joined in for making this an interesting discussion. On Monday, December 17, 2012 9:35:49 PM UTC-9, Arle Lommel wrote: [email protected] Dec 20 07:03PM -0500 Tania...I never realized that "Ding Dong Merrily on High" is a French dance tune (Branle de l'Official)! I can definitely hear it on the gurdy, and would love to see the dance. As for Branle des Chevaux, our French dance caller has substituted a different dance for that tune...it's done at our dances as a circle dance that includes a pawing motion with the foot at one point, and it's a lot more fun than the original. No idea if he and his partner learned it or invented it. If I come across a video, I'll post the link. Mitch Gordon Guerneville, California, US In a message dated 12/20/2012 3:53:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Well said, Arle. I agree wholeheartedly, especially in the case of the Chevaux, which is, basically, a nice tune for a very boring dance. The other tune Michael refers to, le branle de l'official (to which G. R. Woodward set his "Ding Dong Merrily on High" lyric) is, in contrast, a tune which is fun and satisfying to play at any tempo. The dance itself is also fun. I've always enjoyed playing Official at whatever speed suits whomever I'm playing with, be they musicians or dancers, while with Chevaux, there's always the inclination to keep stepping up the speed to keep musicians and dancers alike from falling asleep!. [Played at a good tempo with firm rhythm the tune always fascinates me, esp the min section. which is very strong. Perhaps your phrasing is wrong or you think of it in the wrong way.] [email protected] Dec 20 10:56PM -0500 Here's a video snippet of the dance we do to Branle des Chevaux...not rocket science, but enjoyable. _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMJuJ3smsI <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMJuJ3smsI&list=UU_LtSr8oWIhx_Baeqy5RWGw&in > &list=UU_LtSr8oWIhx_Baeqy5RWGw&in dex=17_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMJuJ3smsI <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMJuJ3smsI&list=UU_LtSr8oWIhx_Baeqy5RWGw&in dex=17> &list=UU_LtSr8oWIhx_Baeqy5RWGw&index=17) In a message dated 12/20/2012 4:03:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Tania...I never realized that "Ding Dong Merrily on High" is a French dance tune (Branle de l'Official)! I can definitely hear it on the gurdy, and would love to see the dance. As for Branle des Chevaux, our French dance caller has substituted a different dance for that tune...it's done at our dances as a circle dance that includes a pawing motion with the foot at one point, and it's a lot more fun than the original. No idea if he and his partner learned it or invented it. If I come across a video, I'll post the link. Mitch Gordon Guerneville, California, US In a message dated 12/20/2012 3:53:13 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Well said, Arle. I agree wholeheartedly, especially in the case of the Chevaux, which is, basically, a nice tune for a very boring dance. The other tune Michael refers to, le branle de l'official (to which G. R. Woodward set his "Ding Dong Merrily on High" lyric) is, in contrast, a tune which is fun and satisfying to play at any tempo. The dance itself is also fun. I've always enjoyed playing Official at whatever speed suits whomever I'm playing with, be they musicians or dancers, while with Cheveaux, there's always the inclination to keep stepping up the speed to keep musicians and dancers alike from falling asleep! <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/f45fb9a4b40e6c19> irish dancing "michael" <[email protected]> Dec 20 09:09PM Elizabeth Gilmore <[email protected]> Dec 19 09:00AM -0800 Elizabeth. If I understand correctly.. you posted this video to show people not dancing traditional.....[but of course, similar 16th cent is traditional in France! I think the style you call trad is straight line dancing with arms by the side. This unnatural style was imposed by the church to prevent people touching, for to do so implied a sexual relationship , which was sinful. Ring dances such as shown in your video have been around in Euro countries from the Middle Ages and no doubt beyond. There are handkerchief ring dances (carols when sung to religious words) where the couple must jointly hold a handkerchief between them until they are married, for to touch would imply instant engagement - or worse!. It strikes me as strange that the natural joy & abandonment you illustrate is against God. I prefer the religious culture around the Kama Sutra where people take their pleasures in God's name - a pleasure which brings a peace 'which passeth all understanding.' Men should think on this when they turn violent. In Scotland 100 years ago the fiddle was called 'a wee sinful thing' because it was used for dancing, but a cello was acceptable! (Verbatim) As ring dances are natural and ancient we should perhaps call them 'traditional' which would certainly be confusing. But dance, like language, undergoes constant change. I think you should accept both types of dance, but ring dancing in its various forms will always be more popular because it is such fun - a bit rumbustious perhaps, but fun for all that. Village dances were in the past controlled by the elders, who allowed the more energetic dances bit by bit as the evening wore on. The young were never allowed to get out of hand. The ends of Fr dances was often signalled by playing g e f d slowly a few times , thus bringing a controlled & quiet ending. ] Michael I recently talked with a friend who went to Ireland... he is an accomplished fiddler and was looking forward to finding a session to join while there... What he said he discovered was that in Ireland there are different forms of sessions... When he asked a local where the music was the local said" which do you want? "trad" or one of the other s (I forgot what he called the others) ... [Modern?] So any of you that have gone to Ireland.. did you find this true? If so... the same thing is going on there as is here .... I enjoy and want to promote tradition... but part of me really enjoys the fact that there is this music that gets people up and dancing in groups WITH each other. In France there are many dances which do this (inc 16th cent) In this video... even though it is perhaps is not 'traditional'... look how much fun they are having and how many people are involved. The music for this need not be elaborate and may be only one tune constantly repeated on a small whistle pipe. (E & C Europe) I have also noticed that the younger generation tends to want to do the more energetic dancing and will inject that energy into the dance anyway....I remember doing that myself when I was younger. AS far as dancing traditional.. maybe no one has actually taught these people what the tradtion is... and maybe they think they are dancing as everyone else does.. So keep them both going, but distinct. The 1st part of the evening cd be Trad & ending with 'modern' <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/5fa63b0b406aaed> Digest for [email protected] - 8 Messages in 2 Topics "michael" <[email protected]> Dec 19 12:57PM You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group hurdygurdy. You can <mailto:[email protected]> post via email. To unsubscribe from this group, <mailto:[email protected]> send an empty message. For more options, <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics> visit this group. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. 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