Hi Sue,

thanks for addressing my comments! 

The only remaining one is if this doc should be published as an own RFC or 
merged with the other requirement documents. I mainly wanted to raise this 
point for discussion and will leave the decision to the responsible AD.

Mirja


> Am 19.08.2016 um 20:15 schrieb Susan Hares <[email protected]>:
> 
> Mirja: 
> 
> Thank you for your reply.  I have removed the text regarding RFC4949.  I 
> believe version-08.txt resolves these comments. 
> 
> Sue 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) [mailto:[email protected]] 
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:30 PM
> To: Susan Hares
> Cc: The IESG; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
> [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [i2rs] Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on 
> draft-ietf-i2rs-protocol-security-requirements-06: (with COMMENT)
> 
> Hi Sue,
> 
> thanks for you replies and background information. Please see further below.
> 
> Mirja
> 
>> Am 18.08.2016 um 02:15 schrieb Susan Hares <[email protected]>:
>> 
>> Mirja: 
>> 
>> Thank you for the review.  Please see the comments below.    Your comments 
>> are sensible, but the sections were put in place to provide background for 
>> the multiple working groups utilizing these requirements.  Please let me 
>> know if I can answer additional questions. 
>> 
>> Sue Hares 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: i2rs [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mirja Kuehlewind
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 4:37 AM
>> To: The IESG
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
>> [email protected]
>> Subject: [i2rs] Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on 
>> draft-ietf-i2rs-protocol-security-requirements-06: (with COMMENT)
>> 
>> Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-i2rs-protocol-security-requirements-06: No Objection
>> 
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email 
>> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this 
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>> 
>> 
>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>> 
>> 
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-protocol-security-requirements/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> A few comments:
>>> 
>>> 1) I don't think copy&paste from RFC4949 is necessary. I would recommend to 
>>> remove this part and just name the definitions that are needed.
>>> 
>>> Sue: Initially, the WG and the authors ran into problems with security 
>>> words.  We included definitions that seem to resolve issues for the WG and 
>>> those who will need to >implemented in NETCONF/RESTCONF.   
> 
>> I understand that this helped the writing process and discussion in the 
>> working group. However, I still advise to remove this from the final RFC 
>> given that readers can easily >check the referred RFC if needed and this 
>> avoids text duplications (which e.g. makes updates very hard).
> 
> Sue: I removed the RFC4949 cut and paste in version -08.txt.   Can I consider 
> this item closed? 
> 
>>> 
>>> 2) The following sentence seems to indicate that the refernce to RFC4949 
>>> should be normative.
>>> "The transfer of data via the I2RS protocol has the property of data 
>>> integrity described in [RFC4949]."
>>> As I don't think this is needed, I would recommend to rather spell out the 
>>> properties here in this sentence. Also, to be honstest I not sure what this 
>>> sentence tells me at all. 
>>> So maybe stating clearing what you mean (instead of just having the 
>>> reference) would help anyway.
>>> 
>>> Sue: I have moved RFC4949 to normative.   RFC4949 states data integrity 
>>> means: a) data has not been changed, destroyed or lost in an unauthorized 
>>> (or accidental) manner, 
>>> and b) the information has not been modified or destroyed in an 
>>> unauthorized manner.   This statement covers man-in-the middle attacks or 
>>> unauthorized changes.  
> 
>> Okay. I would still recommend to spell this simply out in the draft instead 
>> of just giving the reference.
> 
> Sue: I removed this text. 
> 
>>> 3) To me it's not really clear why there are several requirments docs (that 
>>> also are connected and refer each other; see e.g. section 3.6 and 
>>> SEC-REQ-16). 
>> The actually context of this doc is only 4 pages (3.1-3.6). Couldn't those 
>> docs be combined to one requirements doc?
>> 
>> Sue: This is a good process question for a re-use protocol.   A re-use 
>> protocol has a different process than a protocol created out of a single WG. 
>> 
>>> I2RS broke the requirements into pieces so that as we got agreement on one 
>>> piece, the NETCONF/RESTCONF team could begin to work on that piece.  
>>> For example, the pub/sub requirements (RFC7923) is already being worked on 
>>> in NETCONF.  
>>> The I2RS ephemeral state requirements have been delayed by the 
>>> NETMOD/NETCONF discussions on opstate.  
>>> If the IESG wishes, after we have completed this work, we can compile these 
>>> requirements into a single document.  
>>> This process focuses on running code and rough consensus rather than a 
>>> single review process for the IESG. 
> 
>> Thanks that's very useful background information. However, even though I’m 
>> happy to hear that this process worked well, the question for 
>> final publication in one or multiple RFCs is if there is a benefit for the 
>> final reading audience. 
>> Given that these docs are rather short so could be well structured in one 
>> RFC and have interdependencies I don’t see this benefit. 
>> I’d rather would assume that a reader would anyway need to look at multiple 
>> docs in any case which would suggest to have one doc.
> 
> This is a non-normative section: 
> 
> Perhaps I was unclear.  The final reading audience includes the following: 
> NETCONF WG, NETMOD WG,  vendors, prototype implementers, and operators. 
> The final audience review begins as soon as you approve it.  The 
> NETCONF/NETMOD WG will not consider it real until it is an RFC.   
> In a re-use protocol, we can begin work as soon as you approve the 
> requirements. 
> 
>>> Given that these docs are rather short so could be well structured in one 
>>> RFC and have interdependencies I don’t see this benefit. 
>>> I’d rather would assume that a reader would anyway need to look at multiple 
>>> docs in any case which would suggest to have one doc.
> 
>> As you’ve been mention the IESG review process, I’d like to comment on this. 
>> There is some discussion in the IESG about how to treat different documents 
>> differently as they 
>> might need a different level of review (and consensus). However, from my 
>> perspective the main goal is to speed up the publication process. For me the 
>> workload is basically the > same no matter if I read 3 drafts with 15 pages 
>> each or 1 draft with 45 pages. So with respective to this discuss the 
>> question for me would rather be if this doc
>> must be published at RFC at all: Does a document provide valuable 
>> information for future readers or is it just a documentation of the wig’s 
>> working process? 
>> We in the IESG didn’t conclude this discussion and therefore I did not and 
>> am not intending to ask this question regarding this document.
> 
> This is a meta-question on IESG process.  And off-topic to the review of the 
> document.  In your consider of the solution, I think you need to reconsider 
> the re-use protocols as different than other protocols.  This document must 
> be published as an RFC or we cannot get NETCONF/NETMOD WG to expand their 
> protocols to include I2RS Features.   
> The Pub/SUB work in NETCONF/RESTCONF needs these requirements finalizer to 
> make progress.  Fast approval of the requirements for a re-use protocol is 
> critical to the WG trying to re-use a protocol.    
> 
>> 4) Section 3.1 says:
>> "The I2RS architecture [I-D.ietf-i2rs-architecture] sets the following 
>> requirements:"
>> Why is this needed is RFC7921 already sets these requirements?
>> 
>> Sue:  What a logical and rational statement, but unfortunately this 
>> assumption ran into problems in the working groups (NETMOD/NETCONF) who 
>> reviewed the requirements.  >Therefore, this section is there to provide 
>> explicit definitions that resolved inter-group (I2RS to NETCONF and I2RS to 
>> NETMOD) questions on lists. 
>> _____________________________________________
>> i2rs mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs
>> 
> 
> 

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