On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bill Kerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Bill Kerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI > >> > > >> > is this useful feedback? > >> > >> I think it's useful in itself, but there needs to happen quite a bit > >> of work before it can be consumed by developers. I guess someone that > >> knows the context in which those comments are made could translate > >> them to more universally understandable statements, and then someone > >> else could aggregate those with other feedback and produce some > >> summary from all of that. > >> > >> > flux, year 10 student australia, has been slack in recording his > >> > criticisms > >> > (tends to mouth off with a negative but informed tone) but I sat with > >> > him > >> > and wrote them down myself, insisting on a bit more detail - he's one > of > >> > two > >> > students in the class who knows some linux (more than me) - he felt > the > >> > xo > >> > was lacking compared with other linux distributions > >> > > >> > XO DISLIKES > >> > > >> > Slow to load initially > >> > Loading (splash) screen for each activity is sad, dull, not worth it > >> > Games done cheaply compared with GNOME and KDE games > >> > mouse pointer is too big > >> > wants ability to replace XO icon with different icons > >> > wants ability to create a new background > >> > want fluxbox, a better GUI > >> > > >> > btw I have asked the class to try to put themselves, at least some of > >> > the > >> > time, into the shoes of a 6-10 yo child from the developing world when > >> > providing feedback - but have also said that I want to hear negatives > >> > as > >> > well as positives > >> > >> I'm not sure that's the best POV for useful feedback. I cannot think > >> myself of any features of Sugar that are specially targeted to people > >> in developing countries and I for one would like to see Sugar evolve > >> in an useful platform for all people independently of their age. > >> > >> If kids are complaining so much about the Sugar Shell means that they > >> are "seeing" it too much. Most of the important stuff should happen > >> inside activities, not in the Shell. My reaction to that feedback is > >> that Sugar should dissolve itself better into the set of installed > >> activities (by improving performance, for example) and that activities > >> should address better the kids' interests (so they don't need to > >> change the shell icons to get some fun). > >> > >> > (note the final para from death-god, he's not able to think outside > the > >> > MS > >> > paradigm at this point - I plan to do some more talking about these > >> > issues > >> > next term) > >> > > >> > one memory that this triggered in me was mark shuttleworths ubuntu > >> > manifesto: > >> > > >> > > http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/06/mark-shuttleworths-ubuntu-manifesto.html > >> > #13 "pretty" as a feature > >> > >> My suspect is that conventional desktops have a big dissonance with > >> non-office usage, so people spend more time that they would like to in > >> the "OS". Because of that, the desktop GUI is important for them and > >> they want it to be pretty. If we reduced the components that the user > >> needs to interact with, those eliminated components don't need to be > >> pretty any more. If we reduce the time that the user needs to spend on > >> the rest of the desktop, the importance of their "beauty" is also > >> reduced. > >> > >> Not saying that Mark is wrong nor that Sugar should be ugly, just that > >> when we hear that some part of the Sugar shell needs to look nicer or > >> be more like traditional desktops, we may want to reflect why is the > >> shell taking so much of the user attention and if this isn't an > >> opportunity to streamline the experience and take ourselves out of the > >> way. > > > > thanks for comment, Tomeu. I've put it up on the wiki and will attempt to > > discuss these issues with the students when we go back to school > tomorrow. > > (we will have to get our minds back out of holiday mode first, however) > > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI > > > > one thing I have noticed with students who use linux (only a handful at > my > > school) is that they like the ubuntu rotating cube, they see that as new > and > > "cool" > > > > My own thoughts are more in line with what you are saying, that the OS, > if > > we must have one, ought to be just a way to access the activities, that > > pretty is not important. But I do suspect strongly that to attract many > > users (who are used to Windows) it is important and that part of the > success > > of ubuntu is that MarkShuttleworth has picked up on that. > > Agreed, we don't want to sell an OS, but may be forced into that... > > No idea about what we can do there, other than hiring Apple's > marketing department :p I like walter's suggestions on this page: http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar tweaking the interface as an option - for both empowerment and skill building I'll give it a go but fear that most students won't have the patience or carefulness to hack the python code successfully, a few will give it a shot but many will be easily discouraged (trying to think of a way to make it a bit more accessible to more)
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