Yes Gary by all means, the deadline is this weekend Sebastian, earlier in the thread we discussed how part of keeping a clean-looking boot involves getting more information (logos) on the About My Computer page, is that difficult to do?
Sean On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Gary C Martin<g...@garycmartin.com> wrote: > Hi Sebastian, > > On 7 Jun 2009, at 14:37, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> looking at the wiki page, I'm really impressed - great work! :) >> >> I also really like the idea of switching the logo color for each release - >> this shouldn't be hard and is an interesting approach. >> >> Has there already been some kind of agreement on which version we're going >> to use for the LinuxTag release? > > Yes I was wondering this also, given the weekend was the deadline :-) > >> Is the one with the progress bar something everyone could agree with? > > FWIW, my two current favourites are the grey progress bar, or the grey > circle of dots: > > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:XO-sugar-boot-with-progress-bar.gif > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Refined-XO-sugar-boot-with-overlap.gif > >> And could I possibly get the .png files, so that I can compose a new >> snapshot with a preview of the new boot screen (we can still change it >> afterwards, but I'd like to have some snapshot to test it)? > > I don't want to short circuit a decision making process, but let me kick out > their PNGs and email to you (will do that now). That way you at least have a > couple of the possible candidates to experiment/test with now. > > Regards, > --Gary > >> Walter: Have you heard anything regarding the use of the XO in our boot >> screen? Is this okay with OLPC? >> >> --Sebastian >> >> Sean DALY wrote: >>> >>> Actually the logo color linked to a version idea was in my long mail >>> the other day about communicating the version :-) >>> >>> I too think 2 changes a year will give us time to cycle through the >>> twelve variants. >>> >>> To make that work, the actual place where the version number is >>> communicated (Control Panel / About my computer) would need to have >>> the matching color Sugar Labs (not just Sugar) logo. >>> >>> I like this progress bar boot screen because: >>> >>> * ultrasimple, unobtrusive, fits perfectly with Sugar HIG >>> * bar is universally easy to understand, no possibility of confusion >>> with graphic elements. >>> * keeping logo around that long=strong branding, which is vital for >>> Sugar to be recognized by name rather than just "the system" running >>> on XOs, netbooks, etc. >>> >>> I miss the iconic ring treatment though. >>> >>> And, no matter how clean we would like it to be, we still need to >>> address the questions of school/sponsor co-branding (if they have a >>> logo, they won't feel like jst putting their name in grey) and distro >>> co-branding. >>> >>> Perhaps we could solve those problems by putting them in the "About my >>> computer" page as well? Awful as far as co-branding goes (partners >>> would not be happy), but will keep boot minimalist and functional. >>> >>> For a shining example of how more-is-less packaging is ruinous, may I >>> direct your attention to: >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Gary C Martin<g...@garycmartin.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 4 Jun 2009, at 16:35, Gary C Martin wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 4 Jun 2009, at 15:45, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes that would be very helpful I think >>>>> >>>>> I was just going to start tinkering again, I'll make an animated >>>>> version of Eben's XO and progress-bar for evaluation. >>>> >>>> Just uploaded an animated version showing Eben's boot with progress bar >>>> treatment: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:XO-sugar-boot-with-progress-bar.gif >>>> >>>> FWIW: +1 on Eben's suggestion for changing the colour of the Sugar logo >>>> for >>>> each major new Sugar release. It nicely avoids what looks like jumping >>>> through lot's of technical burning hoops of fire, trying to set up a >>>> boot >>>> anim that dynamically changes to match the owners own colours (nice idea >>>> but >>>> I think a big ask at this point in time). >>>> >>>> FWIW2: Just incase any one was wondering, the colour dot versions were >>>> based >>>> on the 1-12 official Sugar Logo treatment colour pairs, i.e definitely >>>> not >>>> not random :-) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> --Gary >>>> >>>>>> If we can reach consensus by tomorrow and finish the actual PNG frames >>>>>> over the weekend we will meet the deadline >>>>>> >>>>>> but, we need a volunteer to do the frames (unless Gary what you have >>>>>> is nearly ready; my stuff is cut/pasted mockup no color control etc) >>>>> >>>>> Sure, getting a series of PNGs from any of my mock-ups is just a "save >>>>> for web" away. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> --Gary >>>>> >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >>>>>> <christianm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree with Eben's points below... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe it would help if one of us mocked up the alternative he is >>>>>>> describing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Christian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Eben Eliason<eben.elia...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Eben Eliason<eben.elia...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Christian - I myself prefer the "rays" to dots which I feel too >>>>>>>>>> closely resemble networks in the Neighborhood view, confusion is >>>>>>>>>> possible (networks being connected to at startup?) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Fred - I'm willing to try that sunrise metaphor, tonight if I can >>>>>>>>>> (travelling today) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Re splash page with logo: in my next mockup I'll leave off the >>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>> school logo.and move that frame to the end. It might be better to >>>>>>>>>> "reserve" a frame for customizable logo or message, before or >>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>> the Sugar spash page >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, in that mockup the first screen is kind of overwhelming with >>>>>>>>> several logos and a few pieces of textual information. At the same >>>>>>>>> time, we tried very hard to eliminate the slideshow effect that >>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>> (well, is) like a bunch of marketing material that detracts from >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> UI. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the Sugar logo should stand alone, so it reads >>>>>>>>> powerfully, and >>>>>>>>> then be replaced in short order by the XO. Perhaps we could >>>>>>>>> entertain >>>>>>>>> a text only solution to identifying the school, in gray beneath the >>>>>>>>> sugar logo. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Version info: In fact I feel strongly about showing version >>>>>>>>>> information... or its corollary, making it easy to find. Teachers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think it's more important that we make it easy to find in the UI. >>>>>>>>> Kids won't reboot that often, and it would be silly to reboot >>>>>>>>> just to >>>>>>>>> find that info. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> parents, admins, G1G1 donors unfamiliar with Sugar will not have >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> foggiest idea how to hunt down version information (Learners >>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>>>>>> have trouble finding it - they will explore their machines ad >>>>>>>>>> infinitum - but they can't be expected to know about >>>>>>>>>> versioning). We >>>>>>>>>> are about to embark on hundreds of thousands of XO-1.5s running >>>>>>>>>> v0..84 >>>>>>>>>> which will coexist with a huge installed base of v0.82 (and many >>>>>>>>>> earlier); SoaS with its simplified numbering scheme will (we >>>>>>>>>> hope) sow >>>>>>>>>> the seeds for preinstalled Sugar in distributions for education >>>>>>>>>> projects. We may be deploying v0.86 at the end of the year... >>>>>>>>>> aside >>>>>>>>>> from how we manage the Activity compatibility matrix, we need to >>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>> such info *extremely* easy to track down for someone interested in >>>>>>>>>> checking if Sugar + Activities are "up-to-date". Our strategy for >>>>>>>>>> teacher buy-in is star marketing on Activities (see press >>>>>>>>>> releases); >>>>>>>>>> making Activity installation/upgrade simple this summer is part of >>>>>>>>>> what we need to do to make SoaS possible in the classroom. Helping >>>>>>>>>> users understand what version they have (of Sugar, of each >>>>>>>>>> Activity) >>>>>>>>>> is a key aspect of that. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree that it's unpleasant to see numbers at boot time >>>>>>>>>> (especially a >>>>>>>>>> datestamped snapshot number). Why don't we borrow an idea from >>>>>>>>>> Apple? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We basically have this already. We ust happen to have an XO in the >>>>>>>>> center of the screen, instead of an apple icon in the upper left. >>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>> info is actually in the "About my XO" section of the settings, >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> might be one step too far. We could go back to an earlier design >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the XO menu and have a direct "About my XO" menu item which jumps >>>>>>>>> directly to the correct settings panel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We could also separate the "About my XO" panel from settings, >>>>>>>>> removing >>>>>>>>> it from the settings panel completely and showing it as it's own >>>>>>>>> modal >>>>>>>>> dialog accessible via an "About my XO" menu item. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would be fine with either approach. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They have a tiny apple icon in the upper-left corner of the >>>>>>>>>> screen; >>>>>>>>>> clicking on it opens a window with the processor, RAM and OSX >>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>> number. In addition to the "About my computer" section in the >>>>>>>>>> Control >>>>>>>>>> Panel, perhaps we could show the version in the Frame? The >>>>>>>>>> bottom bar >>>>>>>>>> has room I think. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's no need to expose this information directly. It will only >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> needed on occasion, and the Frame is designed for the information >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> want to carry with you all the time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When we start to get consolidated feedback, we will know if >>>>>>>>>> difficult-to-find version info is a problem for Sugar / Activity >>>>>>>>>> updaters or not. I feel sure it is and showing the version in the >>>>>>>>>> Frame (the one-glance status communicator) seems to me a good >>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>> which would let us skip info in the splash screen. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nota: my idea would be for each version to change the Sugar logo >>>>>>>>>> color >>>>>>>>>> too... potentially allowing troubleshooters to ask "what color >>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>>> Sugar logo?" and match that to the version number. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would much rather see the logo change colors with each boot, but >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I meant to take this back before sending, and forgot to. I actually >>>>>>>> think changing the colors with each release is a pretty awesome >>>>>>>> idea. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eben >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> changing with each release is a pretty cool idea. I would support >>>>>>>>> that. I think there are enough of combinations to make "wrapping >>>>>>>>> around" a non-issue, as long as we only change the color for major >>>>>>>>> releases (2 per year, on average). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Finally, regarding the animation itself: I Think the gray dots are >>>>>>>>> still the best option, and the clearest. They fit the style, but >>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>> be confused with APs. If we can in any way manage it, coloring >>>>>>>>> the XO >>>>>>>>> in the child's chosen colors is really the way that color should be >>>>>>>>> introduced. The colored dots seem to undermine the importance of >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> metaphor, for me. Everywhere else in the UI, color relates to >>>>>>>>> identity; has meaning. (All the more reason to change the sugar >>>>>>>>> logo >>>>>>>>> colors with each release!) These randomly colored dots just don't >>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>> fit within that concept. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, if no "dot" solution seems to gain consensus, we could go >>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>> to a simple progress bar, which is perhaps less interesting, but >>>>>>>>> simple and clean and matches the UI. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Eben >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:00 AM, Frederick Grose<fgr...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please indulge me to make another pitch for the 'sunrise' >>>>>>>>>>> metaphor for >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> growing ring. >>>>>>>>>>> Using the same color locations, the ring would build from sunrise >>>>>>>>>>> orange to >>>>>>>>>>> midday yellow to afternoon greens and blues to dusky red-violets >>>>>>>>>>> (perhaps >>>>>>>>>>> the darker one last). These are just common earth metaphors >>>>>>>>>>> that might >>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>> to mind as children worldwide--who may have never seen a analog >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> digital >>>>>>>>>>> clock--anticipate what may be waiting for them in their day >>>>>>>>>>> ahead of >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> The ring would also build from one foot, and end symmetrically >>>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>> other--a growth surrounding the nascent learner like a cover--a >>>>>>>>>>> home--a >>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>> shelter for learning or a shower of celestial opportunities. >>>>>>>>>>> "Will I >>>>>>>>>>> grow >>>>>>>>>>> too like the graphic is suggesting?" >>>>>>>>>>> OK, these are just potential metaphors... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Frederick Grose<fgr...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like that a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm with others on leaving the version number as well to the >>>>>>>>>>>> 'About my >>>>>>>>>>>> Computer' panel. (It can be referenced and then read as needed >>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> booting, whereas the vanishing boot image just makes me >>>>>>>>>>>> nervous about >>>>>>>>>>>> writing down or memorizing a long number.) >>>>>>>>>>>> The Green Hornet, would of course only appear on a 'Graphic >>>>>>>>>>>> guidelines' >>>>>>>>>>>> page for deployments and packagers. >>>>>>>>>>>> I suggest you try this sequence: >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. a short, blank white field (infinite potential) >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. the small xo figure (just possibly me in a big universe) >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. the building ring and figure (what might be building for >>>>>>>>>>>> me? Will I >>>>>>>>>>>> grow too as suggested?) >>>>>>>>>>>> 4. the Sugar, and optional custom graphic, pausing, usually a >>>>>>>>>>>> machine-dependent variable time, allowing for reading (fixing >>>>>>>>>>>> the name >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> this tool and those who built it for me) Do we want a >>>>>>>>>>>> gray >>>>>>>>>>>> Sugar >>>>>>>>>>>> Labs opposite the fedora remix? >>>>>>>>>>>> (5. the living, playable, ready-to-open door to Learning--the >>>>>>>>>>>> Sugar >>>>>>>>>>>> Home >>>>>>>>>>>> view.) >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone! --Fred >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fred - I have uploaded a new variant to the wiki: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Eleven_Color_Ray_Variant.2C_Growing_XO_Avatar.2C_No_Prior_Outlines.2C_Starts_With_Logo_Splash_Page >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Frederick >>>>>>>>>>>>> Grose<fgr...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mostly like it. Seems to be close to what we want for now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please consider these adjustments: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. No fine print (leave that for the 'About my Computer" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> panel). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Scale the custom school graphic example (Green Hornet) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> elements, leave out the fine print. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Let the rays grow incrementally to complete the ring (no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfilled >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>> holders). I feel more anticipation and suspense from the ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> without the preview, and more satisfaction of seeing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> color >>>>>>>>>>>>>> burst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you! --Fred >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the second mockup: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Eleven_Color_Ray_Variant.2C_Growing_XO_Avatar.2C_Starts_With_Logo_Splash_Page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This version includes a logo/copyright splash page and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "growing" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "approaching" XO avatar. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comments welcome please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>>>>>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) 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