On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 16:37, Sean DALY<[email protected]> wrote: > OK Tomeu > > To be clear, I'm making a distinction between marketing (in the > spreading the word to regular people sense, not in the FOSS community > building sense) and deploying. I fully agree we need to nurture a > large and wide downstream FOSS community.
I'm a bit confused, how does this affect the guy who works on Sugar and releases source tarballs every 6 months? Thanks, Tomeu > So there's no narrowing of who deploys it, but a prioritization of how > we can get the word out to the most teachers and parents. > > I hope to see Sugar included in distros, but I hope even more they > make an effort to get it out to classrooms. To me, such an effort > would merit our marketing support. I actually think distros could be > much more out in front in the education sector, and Sugar could help > distros leap ahead in K-6, an opportunity they should seize. Look at > the Dell education netbook: Ubuntu went to the trouble of being the > standard OS on it (Windows on option), but they missed the boat on > making Sugar a central part of their K-6 offer. I'd like to work on > that with them. Dell claims 500 school districts have already ordered > the netbooks; rather than write them off, I'd like those buyers to > know that they could run Sugar off an SD-Card for each Learner, a > nominal expense to obtain the best learning environment for smaller > children. > > Distros are not good at "vertical marketing", something Apple for > example excels in and which Microsoft has copied these past few years > (look at their medical industry push). There are historical and > traditional reasons for that, but the situation is that distros are > ill-prepared to make a difference in education without helpers. We can > be a helper, in fact we are uniquely qualified to help in K-6. Perhaps > a different way to look at it is to enumerate the places where there > have been major GNU/Linux projects in K-6 education and concentrate on > those? > > Any model where we can help OEMs sell netbooks is a model that can > broaden distros' tiny marketshare. That's no betrayal of our education > mission, because we don't exclude running Sugar on an old PC with a $5 > USB stick, or on a Mac, or even on Windows with virtualization - Sugar > can arrive in front of a Learner by many technical means. > > If breaking out of marginal marketshare is interesting to distros, we > can help them do that together. It requires marketing work on their > part though, the technical work is a necessary prerequisite but is > insufficient. > > Sean > > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Tomeu Vizoso<[email protected]> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 15:39, Sean DALY<[email protected]> wrote: >>> Now is a good time to work on this, as the SoaS launch is behind us. >>> >>> My understanding is that Sugar Learning Platform releases such as >>> v0.84, v0.86, v0.88 are of interest to our downstream partners and >>> projects... distros naturally, but in particular the OLPC XO-1.5 and >>> the Sugar on a Stick Fedora-based distribution + tools. >>> >>> The XO-1.5 is of interest to everyone involved in OLPC projects but >>> particularly Learners, who certainly have things to tell us about the >>> Sugar they have if they could. >>> >>> Sugar on a Stick is of interest to everyone in K-6 education: >>> teachers, school management and buyers, parents of kids in school. >>> >>> At this time, the distros do not have the reach or potential impact of >>> these two projects. I feel therefore our marketing priority should be >>> on these two projects, and especially Sugar on a Stick, here's why. >>> >>> The enormous OLPC installed base is the source of our credibility and >>> adding potentially hundreds of thousands more Learners through SoaS >>> makes us news, in particular SoaS running on other large installed >>> bases such as Intel Classmates and old PCs. >>> >>> From a marketing perspective, dialogue and coordination with our >>> partners and projects is community liaison and is best served through >>> direct contact, information sharing and negotiation. Should any >>> distros become motivated to market Sugar to educators (as opposed to >>> just adding it to their distro), we could of course be very helpful. >>> >>> But our two biggest ongoing projects, the XO-1.5 refresh and SoaS, >>> require separate and I believe higher priority marketing strategies. >>> >>> 1. The XO-1.5 refresh. >>> >>> OLPC has probably not given a lot of thought to XO-1.5 marketing, >>> although I feel they certainly should, for several good reasons: >>> * silencing naysayers who talk about the "failure" of the OLPC project >>> * making clear what the XO-2 strategy and timetable is (in the absence >>> of this info there will be confusion and speculation) >>> * sharing OLPC Stories, showing the worldwide impact of OLPC, and not >>> only in midsize and small developing countries >>> * explaining unambiguously what the dual default Gnome-Sugar desktop >>> is, how it works, and what the advantages are >>> * communicating that a newer improved version of Sugar will be on it >>> * publishing some deployment numbers so serious journalists will know >>> what's what >>> * giving some indication as to what the Windows on XO status is. >>> >>> They will probably not want to say that the Windows pilots have not >>> resulted in contracts. However, it's entirely possible that the >>> updated hardware will allow XP or even Windows 7 to run, which could >>> still lead to contracts, so I feel it's not something for Sugar Labs >>> to crow about beyond stating the obvious, that buyers prefer Sugar. >>> Journalists, analysts and pundits will want to know what's up with >>> Microsoft though and OLPC will need to address that to avoid >>> confusion. >>> >>> For us, the refresh is an opportunity to say that OLPC has made a vote >>> of confidence by choosing the latest version of Sugar (or "a later" >>> version, if the refresh arrives after Sept.18th), for the benefit of >>> hundreds of thousands of Learners to come. The dual desktop is no big >>> deal since we are positioning ourselves as best-in-class K-6 and it's >>> natural that older Learners will want to explore free software and >>> tools beyond Sugar. (By the way, many Intel Classmate projects boot by >>> default into a locked-down kids' desktop such as EasyBits Magic >>> Desktop, allowing access to Windows only through a password exiting >>> tthe desktop.) >>> >>> It's my wish to work with OLPC on the refresh message, it's their >>> golden opportunity to reverse the negative associations amongst >>> journalists and in the blogosphere and pave the way for the XO-2. The >>> availability of SoaS means interested observers can have the core >>> experience of the XO-1.5 on any other machine. >>> >>> >>> 2. Sugar on a Stick. >>> >>> I would venture that the importance of this "distro" far outweighs all >>> the others, because no one else is marketing Sugar to educators like >>> we are and SoaS is our project - in its current incarnation it depends >>> on Sugar upstream and Fedora upstream, a solid partner since Fedora is >>> an active project with known release dates. Could there be an >>> alternate SoaS non-Fedora distribution? I feel the answer is yes and >>> we could certify the name for another, but only if the quality and >>> ease of use (including stick loader) could match or surpass the >>> Fedora-based one. The underlying distro should not be visible anyway, >>> inasmuch as it is in a support role and the distros can't bring any >>> brand value to teachers and educators at this time. >>> >>> Sugar on a Stick is a game changer, disrupting the status quo in >>> bypassing the stranglehold of preinstalled systems (98% of which are >>> not distros). Its very low cost and very high quality make it a >>> compelling choice for classrooms. The possibility of relieving kids of >>> lugging computers around, yet keeping their environment with them, is >>> an incredible advantage. The next few months are our opportunity to >>> prepare SoaS for classroom deployments and to find the missing pieces >>> of the puzzle such as school server, documentation, hardware >>> compatibility notes including Macs, Local Labs to help with >>> implementation while school system integrators get up to speed. >>> >>> Our biggest marketing efforts should be on Sugar on a Stick, and in my >>> view the ideal release timing >>> is three months before the new school year (June in the Northern >>> Hemisphere), giving educators enough time to evaluate, plan, and test >>> its deployment. However, the actual timing is not as critical as >>> making sure we can maximize marketing impact; ideally, creating buzz >>> during or prior to NECC in the USA for example, or another key >>> educators conference. >>> >>> SoaS v1 Strawberry F11/v0.84 could very well be SoaS v1.1 Strawberry >>> F12/v0.86 by the way, if the Learner experience is close enough. In >>> other words, the numbering/naming should be based on the end-user >>> experience, and not what techno goes into it. Our wide coverage was a >>> direct result of positioning SoaS as our first major standalone >>> release, replacing the complicated numbering system with a simple one >>> instantly understandable to everyone; it may well make more sense to >>> plan the v2 "another flavor" for a year from now and not sooner. In >>> the meantime, we can build the brand value of Sugar on a Stick by >>> building its ecosystem, learning from the GPA pilot, building the >>> Activity and ebook offers, and of course repeating our >>> differentiators. >>> >>> An OEM deal targeted to education could change this strategy, but at >>> this time I feel this is the best way forward. >> >> I think this is a very good plan for the downstream part of SLs, but >> unfortunately plays very bad with my work as an upstream developer. It >> makes a lot of sense for you to focus on some ways to deploy Sugar and >> thus on one (or two?) distros, but Sugar as an upstream project needs >> to nurture an as big as possible downstream community. >> >> Or could you make a case on how I as an upstream developer would win >> anything by narrowing the people that can use my stuff? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> thanks >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Simon Schampijer<[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> On 07/02/2009 12:27 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 18:18, David Farning<[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Tomeu Vizoso<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 00:40, David Farning<[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> This thread is an attempt to help clean up a couple of issues that >>>>>>>> have been cropping up over the past couple of months. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There have been a couple of instances of suboptimal communication >>>>>>>> between different parts of the project. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Several times recently, external organizations have been looking for a >>>>>>>> big picture view of what is happening at Sugar Labs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The .84 release was pretty easy to coordinate. The development team >>>>>>>> picked a release date about six months after .82. The developers >>>>>>>> followed the time line pretty well. Simon did a fantastic just with >>>>>>>> just a stick and a handful of carrots as release manager getting >>>>>>>> getting the release shipped on time. The only two external >>>>>>>> organizations we worked with closely were Fedora and OLPC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the midterm release of Strawberry, we have seen the importance of >>>>>>>> improving communication with more internal groups and external >>>>>>>> organizations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Internally, we have seen the importance of synchronizing development, >>>>>>>> marketing, and the project as a whole's time lines and goals. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Externally, we have seen a significant increase in external >>>>>>>> organization participation. Several university have express >>>>>>>> interested in working with SL. Several distributions are becoming >>>>>>>> more involved. Several new pilots and deployments are participating in >>>>>>>> Sugar development rather than just consuming Sugar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A first step will be to start working on project and team level road >>>>>>>> maps which assign dates and champions to significant events. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sugar Labs and each team already have roadmap pages listed. Over the >>>>>>>> next couple of weeks, I would like to work with the development, SoaS, >>>>>>>> marketing, infrastructure teams to create roadmaps and goals. (This >>>>>>>> is not to exclude any other teams participation.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then using iteration and project level goals we can start linking the >>>>>>>> roadmaps together. >>>>>>> Sounds great! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tomeu >>>>>>> >>>>>> There is now a very rough draft/outline at >>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Roadmap . >>>>> >>>>> First of all, you mention several times a "release" but don't specify >>>>> what gets released. Also, is the Sugar Learning Platform the upstream >>>>> project? What about SoaS? Also, what is "Unified SoaS"? >>>>> >>>>> "Release dates up to and including .86 have been determined by the >>>>> development team. Starting with .88, the release schedule will be >>>>> determined by the Sugar Labs oversight board." >>>> >>>> Is this picking a date for the release or deciding what goes into a >>>> release? >>>> >>>> For the date - we have picked it to align to our downstream projects - >>>> the linux distributions. So far this worked quite well. So the current >>>> dates are not picked arbitrary. >>>> >>>> Features: Depending on the Fedora policy I hacked up this one for >>>> features: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Policy >>>> >>>> To reduce overhead, like an engineering steering commitee I took out the >>>> Fesco part. I think for the near future we are fine with such a 'simple' >>>> policy. >>>> >>>>> I didn't knew that the oversight board was supposed to take such >>>>> day-to-day decisions. In any case, I hope that the date that the SLOBs >>>>> decide for the Sugar Learning Platform is the same as the development >>>>> team decides, because otherwise we are going to have a big conflict >>>>> here. >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Simon >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
