In the context of Sugar we need a simple way to students to send their work to the teacher and a simple way to the teacher to group these works, and follow the progress. Can we start with it?
Gonzalo Odiard On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Caroline Meeks <[email protected] > wrote: > Yama, > > Great vision! > > I break this down into two parts. > > 1. Software that assess students, track and displays results, quickly and > efficiently without using up a lot of instructional time. > 2. Software and a content library that analyzes these results and gives > students the right learning objects/experiences for their current level and > learning style. > > #1 is straightforward programming. > #2 is a grand challenge! > > Both 1 and 2 already happen without technology, just substitute "teacher" > for "software" and adjust the grammer. > > What is interesting is that for a teacher #1 is the difficult, time > consuming, boring piece that is challenging to do well, especially in large > classes and #2 is one of the interesting, creative parts of their job. > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Yamandu Ploskonka <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> On 04/21/2010 05:06 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: >> >> In essence, every child deserves an IEP (Individual Educational Plan) >> which are expensive and time consuming to develop and thus are reserved for >> an elite group: the special needs children. Every child has special needs. >> Every child needs an IEP. But where will the funds, personnel, and >> curriculum come from to provide it? >> >> Caryl >> >> >> Haha! that was to be point number 2, that I somehow forgot and the >> message went into drafts and I sent it later without checking.... Thanks >> Caryl, good catch, that was missing >> >> so, >> >> 2) As per 1) (now below somewhere in the earlier messages), each child and >> educator is unique. Just like Caryl mentions it, to do an IEP is >> complicated, expensive, etc, but in essence it is about gathering data and >> reactions to stimuli from an individual and following certain protocols to >> interpret them and then act certain interventions that correspond to the >> said individual. >> >> You know what? Computers are grrrreat! at handling data, interpreting it >> by following algorithms, and then giving an output that corresponds to the >> inputs entered. In slightly better English, a computer could present >> certain activities to a child, and from the way the kid responds, determine >> the course of action to help said kid to learn. And computers don't mind at >> all to help Johnnie one way, and then help Sally a very different way, >> keeping strict track of each one, and not just adapting the way things are >> presented to each child's style of learning (uh, I believe the current >> buzzword is neural cognition something). Of course this might have a chance >> if the programmers are not one-size-fits-all lusrs. >> >> example: 310 - 220 >> Right answer is 90, OK, next. >> >> but, among the "wrong" answers some do tell us some things. Like someone >> answered 110. That is not a random error, but something that needs a * >> specific* intervention, not just telling the kid he needs to "do more >> math problems". Another telling error would be 190. Also, some exercises >> would be presented in audio, others involving putting things in places, etc, >> trying to figure out what style a kid is best at - then using that style as >> a good road for learning new stuff, but also a chance to catch up some other >> styles he is less strong in. >> >> Yes yes yes, this involves some AI, something sort of dead after the >> dot.com bubble. But it could be done - some such computer-based >> interactive tools already exist for some diagnoses, and also for some >> therapies, interestingly enough some of the software in use is the same >> version released in the late 90s... >> >> Now for the very best thing: >> >> Computers can be immensely patient. >> >> They can be immensely customisable. A computer doesn't care if it needs >> to work slowly-like with Matt, doing good reinforcing with little pink >> dinosaur dances to keep him interested, and they still are just the same old >> pile of gray metal, just as good, even if they sit in front of Josh, who >> might just beat Doogie Howser by graduating UCLA at 8. It just feeds him >> more stuff faster, thus not just helping him learn, but keeping him out of >> boredom trouble, and best of all, out of Mrs. Crabby's hair, does she * >> hate* show-offs. >> >> Is this just a >> gedankenexperiment<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment> >> ? >> >> It obviously hurts any chance of getting this to work that my people >> skills and my grant-application skills are both extra low, because this >> would need some money to put together a prototype. Unless this hits some >> wave of viral networking, and this message gets passed on to someone who >> could fund it... >> >> An IEP *and* made-to-size interventions, for every one, for every single >> one of those very special, very uniquely created kids, whatever abilities, >> skills, giftings, interests they have. And also, very important, to help >> the teacher - not replacing him by any means, but taking away the routine, >> the drudgery, the need to be a specific fit to every child, letting the >> teacher focus in human relationship, behavior, communication, while the >> detail and step by step work is helped by the machine. >> >> There. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> From: [email protected] >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:00:22 -0400 >> To: [email protected] >> CC: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Data vs Critical Thinking - Can Sugar give schools >> both? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Yamandu Ploskonka <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> I highly respect you initiatives, Caroline, not just because they start as >> a basically good idea, but then you do great follow-through that I wish I >> will learn more from. And this is a great initiative, your email waiting a >> long time in my inbox because it was so good I wasn't figuring out how to >> contribute, though I felt I needed to at least share a couple thoughts. >> >> >> Thank you for your kind words :) >> >> >> Something sort of along these lines I have been pursuing pretty much since >> forever, but in my case it has not passed from being a gedankenexperiment, >> alas. >> >> My reflection goes along these ways >> >> 1) each child (and each teacher!) is unique in abilities, giftings, >> potential and actual skills, learning styles... >> >> from this we can infer that "one-size-fits-all" education is not as good - >> for the child - as education that fits each child's way. >> >> one-size-fits-all education is cheaper, >> >> >> The interesting thing is that RTI is actually being implemented as a >> cost savings measure in the US. In the US schools often identify up to 15% >> of their students as needing "special education". They are then >> generally segregated into separate classrooms or pulled out of class into >> resource rooms where they receive instruction with highly qualified teachers >> in small class sizes. Lots of money is spent on this but the outcomes for >> the students are generally extremely poor. In addition, many students with >> reading problems are not referred until they start failing, often around 3rd >> or 4th grade. The referal process itself is expensive, involves tests and >> lots of meetings. >> >> With RTI policy makers are hoping to teach more students in their >> normal classroom and remediate learning problems early, reducing >> identification of special ed students and reducing costs. Although the >> results of the studies show that improves performance for all students, cost >> savings by reducing special ed is a major driver in adoption. >> >> >> >> seems to work, is the way it is done everywhere... arguments hard to beat, >> though for generations it was SOP, for those who could afford it, to have >> tutors to work with their kids one-on-one, something obviously impractical >> and impossible to scale-up to the needs and the rights we recognize now. >> >> enter differentiated instruction, which sadly has meant often some kind of >> apartheit, where the "A" tier gets attention, funding, the best teachers... >> >> >> Again an interesting cultural difference. In the >> US differentiated instruction, when its being used to refer to a single >> classroom, seems to usually mean more attention to the lower performing >> students. >> >> We do definitely also have tracking where students who test high enough >> go to separate classes and receive more of everything. But that is not what >> the people here in the US usually call differentiated instruction. >> >> >> It is now SOP that there are "better" schools parents fight to get their >> kids in. Contrariwise, many classrooms are by design mixed-things and some >> sort of forced integration has been a fashion for a while, and for a while >> failing schools got more funding, a trend that took a while to turn around >> since it was discovered that it encouraged failure. >> >> >> >> >> Your proposal indicates "more intensive instruction" for the "students >> that are struggling", which is nice, no doubt for those, but maybe unfair to >> the others. It appears many more "scholar athletes" lately are getting >> diagnosed for disorders that allow them to use chemicals that otherwise are >> banned... I am concerned that if the way to get better schooling is to be >> lower tier, there might be a rush for it. >> >> >> Nod, I agree. I think there is a fundamental dilemma that society and >> indeed every teacher faces around who gets instructional attention. My hope >> working with technology is to raise the general level and the amount of >> resources, I don't imagine that we will ever really eliminate this dilemma. >> >> Interestingly I worry about it on the other side in this case. In the >> kindergarten class I observed the struggling students had an hour of small >> group phonics lessons. The other students had shorter reading groups and in >> the rest of the time they played with blocks, math games, used computer >> software and read. I worry about the struggling students having enough time >> for exploration and play. >> >> To me our goal needs to create technology that provide the best possible >> experiences for students receiving the intensive instruction and those who >> are left with more time for individual activities and I think Sugar can >> absolutely support both. >> >> Personally I'm more impressed with the data collection and analysis part >> of RTI. I the goal I'd like to see us work towards is to sue the data used >> to give every student instruction right in their zone of proximal >> development and to make it easy for teachers to find alternative teaching >> approaches for students who don't respond to the first way something is >> taught. >> >> I do think there is power in learning from research >> backed pedagogical methods like RTI, especially when >> they emphasize something like Data which is a good match for technology. >> However, this is a good conversation because part of RTI is very based in >> the US public school culture of spending more resources on special ed >> students. So we need to dissect it and take the pieces that create better >> learning for all students. >> >> Thanks! >> Caroline >> >> >> >> >> >> On 04/20/2010 09:29 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote: >> >> Hi Subbu, >> >> Not off topic in my opinion. >> >> RTI consists of: >> >> 1. *Scientific, Research-Based Instruction- Delivered in Tiers, with >> students who are struggling getting more intensive instruction.* >> *2. Screening of all students.* >> *3. Progress monitoring (about every 2 weeks) for the students getting >> the more intensive instruction (the 'intervention').* >> * >> * >> *US based discussions of RTI focus on how it effects the pipeline to >> special education. But in many OLPC contexts I don't think there is a >> special education to be referred to. I think if kids can't make it in the >> general classroom they drop out. Thus a system that keeps more kids on >> track is valuable.* >> * >> * >> *Discussions of how to improve instruction is very on topic for RTI. In >> RTI terms you could think about it in two ways. Are the materials part of a >> Tier I (all students) instruction or are they for Tier II, for struggling >> students. The great thing about technology, be it a laptop or a mp4 player, >> is that it could be used in both ways. The whole class could use it, and we >> could help teachers match up specific weakness in students with specific >> learning objects for a Tier II like intervention.* >> * >> * >> *I'm focusing a lot on the screening and progress monitoring pieces of >> RTI because, thanks to huge, long, high stakes tests that teachers don't see >> results back from for months, assessment has gotten a bad name. >> RTI assessment is quick and results are immediate, specific and actionable. >> * >> * >> * >> *Yes, on the cell phones/hand helds for doing the assessments. In the US >> palm pilots are used. I do think setting it up on a cell phone would be far >> more economical.* >> * >> * >> *Thanks for responding. :)* >> * >> * >> *Caroline* >> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:36 AM, K. K. Subramaniam <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> On Tuesday 20 April 2010 06:01:33 am Caroline Meeks wrote: >> > Why can't computers for children both give them the means for creation, >> > independent learning, collaboration etc etc. and give their teacher >> > detailed, nuanced, actionable data on what skills they have mastered and >> > what they are still struggling with? >> Computer-centric vocabulary is becoming obsolete today. Talking about >> computers today is a bit-like talking about DC/Induction motors in our >> homes. >> We don't think of mixers, juicers, grinders, washing machines etc as motor >> machines, do we? Kids don't think of mobile phones as computers. They >> think >> of them as phones, cameras, voice recorders, mp3/mp4 players etc. >> >> >Problem solvers, groundbreaking pioneers and visionary leaders need to >> know >> >their phonics and their basic math skills. We have the capability to >> build >> >tools that help teachers know and track which students are struggling >> with >> >what skills, and provide the collaborative framework for them to collect >> >data and share it to determine what works to teach those skills to all >> >students. >> Just a few weeks back, I had a discussion with village school teachers >> about >> using smart machines to enliven language lessons. The discussion veered >> around >> using mini-speakers with mp3 player in classrooms. The players, about 4" >> cube >> take in 2GB USB flash, SD card or micro-SD cards and play for 5 hours on a >> single charge. They cost about $8-$10 here and 2GB card can easily hold >> about >> four-five years of language lessons. Neither teachers nor 6-9 year olds >> think >> of them as computers. >> >> We could also think of using portable mp4 players (for visual lessons) or >> smartphones (for data collection). These machines don't exclude the use of >> laptops for authoring lessons and give more options for children to learn >> languages, math and science. >> >> [Apologies if this is OT on a RTI thread] >> >> Subbu >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Caroline Meeks >> Solution Grove >> [email protected] >> >> 617-500-3488 - Office >> 505-213-3268 - Fax >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> [email protected]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Caroline Meeks >> Solution Grove >> [email protected] >> >> 617-500-3488 - Office >> 505-213-3268 - Fax >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop >> project!)[email protected]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> >> > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > [email protected] > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [email protected] > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Gonzalo Odiard Responsable de Desarrollo Sistemas Australes
_______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
