Just a reminder that we are meeting tomorrow (Thursday, 10 May 2012)
at 21UTC/17EST in #sugar-meeting on irc.freenode.net
By way of background, I wanted to share the discussion on
#sugar-meeting re Local Labs:
walterbender icarito: did you see my recap?
icarito walterbender, yes up to where you mentioned "mifos"
walterbender that is as far as I got
walterbender mifos is the other project that is looking into setting
up a parallel org
icarito then I glanced at mifos and asked how would the local labs
concept fit into this new org model
walterbender icarito: when we create new co, we could do it with
local labs in mind from the start...
walterbender icarito: part of the problem is that SFC has no such
structure or the ability to create it
walterbender icarito: and new co can subsume the liability without
having it leak to the other SFC projects
walterbender icarito: the collective nature of the SFC naturally
makes it more difficult to take risks as mistakes can impact every
project
walterbender of course we would be in a similar position in new co re
one local lab creating havoc for all the others, but at least it stays
in the family
kaametza_ hi walter, when you refer to a new co you mean to
incorporate like a NGO? US based?
[INFO] 2 matches for “kaametza”: [kaametza, kaametza_]
walterbender kaametza_: not sure... looking into the possibilities...
but that is the obvious path
icarito i thought the idea of joining the SFC was to avoid having to
create an org ourselves
kaametza_ the goal would be to associate all local labs?
kaametza_ I mean there are incorporated local labs already like
colombia
icarito but if our need for decentralization does not fit into the
SFC model then maybe a mixed model is acceptable for the SFC?
walterbender icarito that was part of my initial motivation, and it
has served the project well in general
walterbender icarito: but we have needs beyond what the SFC can do
keynote2k walterbender: I didn't see your recap
keynote2k I just received about twenty lines of backlogged chat
all at once
walterbender keynote2k: sorry... and I lost the back log...
walterbender keynote2k: my machine crashed
icarito walterbender, keynote2k I have the backlog one sec
icarito keynote2k: <walterbender> to summarize where we are... it
looks like a distributed organizational model is difficult if not
impossible for the SFC to manage from within.
icarito so in brief, in a discussion we tony, we talked about the
possibility of setting up a new org to handle that aspect of things
icarito SFC would still be the home for the project
icarito new org would be the home for the things that need to augment
the project in the field
icarito new org could be set up to be distributed and global
icarito this is a path another project is also pursuing
keynote2k yes, that's correct
|<-- Ariel_Calzada has left freenode (Quit: Leaving.)
walterbender what I didn't go on to say is that from the SFC POV,
we'd have Sugar communities, but not Sugar Local Labs
walterbender and whatever New Co did vis-a-vis Local Labs would be
independent of the SFC
keynote2k ok, I'm up to speed.
keynote2k icarito: what do you think?
icarito keynote2k, one area that concerns us is we have some projects
we'd like to get some help to fund
icarito specifically at this point we are working on some development
which will require for us to pilot
icarito we have a local community
icarito that has other projects as well
keynote2k what is your current fund raising plan?
kaametza_ we have a miexed strategy
icarito we are looking at various options, one of which is the
possibility of doing crowdfunding
kaametza_ we are appling to grants and also looking for local
resources from gov
keynote2k so, if we went with the structure walterbender is
suggesting, you could continue to pursue those avenues, right?
kaametza_ still as icarito says fundraising seems to be the real
option for the nature of the project
icarito resources from the government will involve going into a
bidding process and for that we are looking at options from local
partners (as you know, we are not incorporated)
kaametza_ this is not easy to put together as increases project
overhead and doesnt necesarly make it sustainable
icarito currently some members of the community have directly funded
the development but for actually deploying things seem more
complicated
kaametza_ we would appriciate some help putting together a fund
raising plan
icarito we think the fundraising, at least for the development part
would possibly fit within the current SFC model
keynote2k I understand the issue, but having a "local lab" program
affiliated with Sugar/Conservancy wouldn't solve this.
keynote2k If Sugar as a project wants to fund specific software
development, they can put together a grant proposal and seek funding.
But that's separate from the question of whether the project
incorporates various Local Labs
icarito keynote2k, back when we asked this in December it was because
the local authorities wanted to have some assurance we were a
recognized group by an international institution
keynote2k were those local authorities looking to fund software
development, or services, training and deployment?
icarito in fact, as members of Sugar Labs, it is my understanding we
could ask for help with the funding, wether we are in Peru or
anywhere, the problem becomes when we seek to bring these solutions to
the field, correct?
keynote2k icarito: Typically, project leadership committees gather
development proposals from within the community and prioritize them.
Conservancy works with the leadership committee to put together grant
proposals.
icarito keynote2k, we have found it is difficult to offer only the
development part, they will always want help with deployment
keynote2k understood
walterbender icarito: I don't understand what you are asking...
icarito walterbender, currently we have very specific development
plans and also a pilot
keynote2k Conservancy has a difficult time managing the exposure
associated with deployment and training - especially when the
deployment is happening outside of the US. Conservancy isn't going to
enter into a contract with a foreign municipality on behalf a set of
volunteers to provide services in that country.
icarito the pilot is to test a solution that could scale, even globally
kaametza_ questions is how to present the relationship between
local
communitues with the global community to third parties as gov
walterbender icarito: I understand that, but I don't understand "we
could ask for help with funding"
walterbender kaametza_: I think it is clear that we cannot as SL/SFC
make such representations
walterbender kaametza_: but maybe in a new co, we can
icarito walterbender, as tony said, "develpment proposals" - for, for
instance, a fundraising effort - we have thoought of, e.g. something
like Kickstarter, but that particular example requires a US based org
or person
kaametza_ walterbender: any local comunity would still be part of
the
global community doesn't necesarly requires represntation
keynote2k icarito: those development proposals wouldn't
necessarily
be by a local lab for a local lab, but by a project's leadership
committee.
icarito keynote2k, understood, so that is the path we will follow for
the specific project I'm mentioning, thanks for clarifying this
walterbender kaametza_: but icarito just got through saying that you
needed the letter to demonstrate such representation
kaametza_ back in december we needed it, we understood it wasn't
going to be possible after all
kaametza_ the question these days is how local community is
related to SL/SFC?
keynote2k kaametza_: it isn't.
icarito keynote2k, except every member of local community is a member
of SL?
icarito so the question becomes, how are members of SL related to SFC?
kaametza_ would it be possible to have specific agreements for
specific purposes?
keynote2k a local community is a vibrant group of users and
volunteers who use code. Now, SL's charter may allow those members to
vote for the leadership committee: the SLOBs. But, as local
communities, they are unaffiliated with Conservancy
keynote2k Conservancy's fiscal sponsorship agreement is with the
SLOBs, not with individual contributors, or with various groups of
local users/volunteers. We can't govern that kind of scope
kaametza_ ok, still would it be possible to have specific
agreements
for specific purposes?
keynote2k I think it would be very difficult to do so. To have a
separate agreement would be tantamount to creating a separate fiscal
sponsorship agreement
keynote2k and any software development work with Sugar can and
should
be routed through the existing fiscal sponsorship agreement with SL
kaametza_ then the way to go would be thru teams and projects not
local labs, correct?
keynote2k What do you mean by "teams and projects"?
icarito keynote2k, what about the Sugar Labs Deployment Team? no
point in having one if we can only do development, correct?
icarito walterbender, understanding this, it seems if SL wants to do
anything which is not development per se, a new org might be
neccessary
kaametza_ teams (group of SL members) developing Sugar
sub-projects
walterbender icarito: the goal of the SL deployment team is to share
ideas and know how... not do deployments
keynote2k the SL Deployment Team can exist to share information,
etc.
walterbender icarito: that was indented to be the activity of local
groups
keynote2k I agree ^
kaametza_ what happens to associations already incorporated like
colombia's ?
keynote2k how are they incorporated?
kaametza_ the are a NGO
keynote2k If they're incorporated as a stand-alone org in
Colombia,
then they're still not under the province of Conservancy
keynote2k at that point, it's just a trademark licensing issue:
should SL allow a separate entity to call themselves SL? (Note: I
don't remember the name of the Colombian local lab)
kaametza_ Sugar Labs Colombia
kaametza_ it was incoporated on 2009
walterbender their website is down
kaametza_ they are still incorporated
icarito walterbender, yes bernie updated mediawiki but didn't run
maintenance on the local labs, he gave me access a few days ago but I
haven't managed to fix it yet
keynote2k well, so my personal position would be that it's
dangerous
to have a separate org named "Sugar Labs" - if they do something
horribly bad, then it would reflect poorly on SL's brand. That being
said, Conservancy typically leaves it up to the projects to decide how
stringent they want to be with their TM policy
keynote2k but, they can presumably raise their own $ and keep
their
own bank account, since they're an independent NGO
keynote2k neither SL nor Conservancy would be exposed to liability
based on anything Sugar Labs Colombia does. The only risk is the
potential misuse or dilution of the SL brand
icarito walterbender, keynote2k, so how complicated is it to found
this new-org, who will do the work necessary and how can we help?
walterbender I've already started looking into it
walterbender I need to write a draft of the charter and then I will
run it past SLOB and SFC for feedback
walterbender but it will be wholly independent of SFC/SL in its
incorporation
walterbender (sort of like the way OLPC is both OLPCA and OLPCF)
walterbender two charters, two sets of books, two boards
walterbender just lots of the same people
icarito two boards?
walterbender yes.
walterbender it may be that new co decides to appoint SLOB members as
its board members, but that is a decision to make not a requirement
kaametza_ walterbender: would this new co afiliate the current
"local
labs" as franchises?
walterbender kaametza_: we need to decide how to do that, but that
would be one of the intentions of setting up a new co
walterbender kaametza_: I was thinking along the lines of moodle
walterbender (as I mentioned in the SLOB meeting)
kaametza_ would it be focused on providing services then?
walterbender yes... that is the whole point
kaametza_ well it sound like a very smart way to go
icarito would this new org also be in condition to accept donations
for pilots/other deployment, field oriented projects?
walterbender icarito: we should compile a wish list for new co and
then see how close we can come to developing a structure that can
accomodate
walterbender needs to disappear soon... to be continued at tomorrow's
SLOB meeting?
kaametza_ i like wish lists!
icarito fine I think the picture is much more clear for us now
icarito we appreciate the help SFC provides in development and for
Freedom, keynote2k, by the way
keynote2k glad to help.
kaametza_ would it be a good idea to keep current "local labs" in
the loop?
walterbender kaametza_: of course
kaametza_ I guess everybody is in edujam these days
walterbender I'll send the backlog to SLOBs and we can keep talking
walterbender everybody but me
-walter
--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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