SPF when I joined IBM in 1978 was Structured Programming Facility. Internally we were starting to embrace Jackson Structured programming and it was clear to me having already been exposed to Jackson that SPF was no such thing.
It was handy for formatting in a structured / indented manner. A programmer in our team would write all his PL/I in a continuous stream with the semi-colon delimiters. He would then use the structured formatter of the interactive checkout compiler to format the code nicely. As previously stated the product morphed into ISPF. Productivity is a better word for bean counters. On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 8:40 PM David Spiegel < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Lennie, > When I became a SysProg in 1982, I became more familiar with the IBM > alphabet soup entries PP, FDP and IUP. > In today's world, not having PDF is laughable. Back then it was slightly > possible if corporations wanted to save money (and could live with only > TSO). > BTW, SDSF started life as an FDP. (I supported (IUP) ADRS-II.) > Believe it or not, PCF (actually, PCF-II) still exists as TSO Command > Limiting in ACF2. Some of my employers use it, even though it is > completely useless. (I opened a case with Broadcom on this topic. They > reluctantly agreed with me.) > > Regards, > David > > On 2024-08-18 06:24, Lennie Bradshaw wrote: > > David, > > Yes, I remember that name change too. The original scripting language > used for SPF panels was way simpler than the sophistication we have now. Of > course ISPF then split into two products, ISPF and PDF. I always felt that > was a little silly. I never came across anyone who only had one of the > products. > > > > FDP stands for Field Developed Program. I think it referred to products > developed in the field for specific customers rather than developed in > software labs. Other FDPs I have encountered include PCF which provided > controls over who could execute which TSO commands. This was in the days > before RACF of course. I think maybe JES328x was also originally an FDP. > You can find a short discussion about FDPs in this Wikipedia article. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Type-III_Library > > > > Lennie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of David Spiegel > > Sent: 18 August 2024 02:41 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: 3270 programming > > > > HI Lennie, > > The "P" in ISPF was changed to "Productivity" (from "Programming"). > > I was still in university and had no clue what "FDP" meant. > > > > Regards, > > David > > > > On 2024-08-16 19:34, Lennie Bradshaw wrote: > >> David, > >> Yes, I remember that. Was it an FDP? I used it on MVS 3.8. Its > full-screen editing capabilities were a wonder after using TSO EDIT! > >> But this was after I had already written the 3270 programs. > >> ISPF followed on after the success of SPF. > >> Lennie > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > >> Behalf Of David Spiegel > >> Sent: 16 August 2024 17:34 > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: 3270 programming > >> > >> Hi Lennie, > >> "... (in the late 1970s) I wrote some program for TSO using 3270 > protocols. This was in the days before ISPF ..." > >> I Used ISPF's predecessor in the late '70s. (It was called SPF -- > Structured Programming Facility). > >> > >> Regards, > >> David > >> > >> On 2024-08-16 09:13, Lennie Bradshaw wrote: > >>> Seymour, > >>> That is interesting. I was unaware the protocol had been externalised > from IBM. I guess this absolves them of the responsibility of providing > documentation as well. > >>> > >>> Phil asked what was the original posters requirement. Well years ago > (in the late 1970s) I wrote some program for TSO using 3270 protocols. This > was in the days before ISPF and before the extended attribute support was > available. I have been involved in such programs rarely since then, but > have maintained some knowledge of the protocol. I have somewhere a "Green > Book" which has all the tables and so on, but I have mislaid it. I had to > make some changes to a VTAM USS table recently and was looking for the > specifications for the control strings I could use. As I couldn't find my > Green Book, I looked online and could not see where IBM had this documented. > >>> Hence my questions. > >>> > >>> The website that Sebastian found was really useful. > >>> > >>> Many thanks to all who contributed. I will try and butt out now. > >>> Lennie > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> On > >>> Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > >>> Sent: 16 August 2024 12:56 > >>> To:[email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: 3270 programming > >>> > >>> I would start with RFC 2355, TN3270 > >>> Enhancements<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2355/> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > >>> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי > >>> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> on > >>> behalf of Mike Schwab<[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2024 11:12 PM To:[email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: 3270 programming > >>> > >>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=terminal-3270-data > >>> - > >>> stream > >>> Specifically listed but no link, > >>> > >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 7:45 PM Tom Brennan<[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> I don't think TN3270/TN3270E protocols are related to this manual. > >>>> They're basically just a layer used to pass the binary 3270 data > >>>> stream back and forth. > >>>> > >>>> But Lennie has a good point. I have a printed copy -05 from 1990 > >>>> and it's pretty beat up. I seem to remember it on an IBM doc site > >>>> until > >>>> (guessing) 2005 or so, then it was suddenly gone. Maybe someone > >>>> made a mistake in removing it, because it's certainly required for > >>>> anybody who wants to code their own 3720 screens, or simply wants to > >>>> know how things work. > >>>> > >>>> On 8/15/2024 5:33 PM, Ken Bloom wrote: > >>>>> 3270 is supported via tn3270 and tn3270E. That’s the protocol > supported by IBM OSA or Visara CCA3074 etc. You can probably find some > old coax manuals for native 3270. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ken > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Kenneth A. Bloom > >>>>> CEO > >>>>> Avenir Technologies Inc > >>>>> /d/b/a Visara International > >>>>> 203-984-2235<tel:203-984-2235> > >>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>> http://www.visara.com/<http://www.visara.com/> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Aug 15, 2024, at 8:22 PM, Lennie Bradshaw< > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> So if the protocol is still supported, and still used, and still a > valid programming interface, why is there no *current* manual available > from IBM documenting it? > >>>>> > >>>>> Lennie > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<[email protected]> On > >>>>> Behalf Of Jay Maynard > >>>>> Sent: 15 August 2024 23:02 > >>>>> To:[email protected] > >>>>> Subject: Re: 3270 programming > >>>>> > >>>>> I think IBM still supports 3270 access, if not the 3270s themselves. > >>>>> > >>>>> But if the data stream hasn't changed since the -7 manual was > published, there's no need for an update... > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 4:54 PM Paul Gilmartin < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 15:16:15 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> There have been no updates. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does IBM continue to support the device? If not, there's little > >>>>> business case to provide user's manuals. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regardless, some documentation is necessary as long as IBM products > >>>>> depend on 3270 data streams. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> gil > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - > >>>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>>>> IBM-MAIN > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jay Maynard > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - > >>>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>>>> IBM-MAIN > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - > >>>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>>>> IBM-MAIN > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - > >>>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>>>> IBM-MAIN > >>>>> > >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> - > >>>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>>> IBM-MAIN > >>> -- > >>> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > >>> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>> IBM-MAIN > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>> IBM-MAIN > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email [email protected] with the message: INFO > >>> IBM-MAIN > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > >> email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > >> email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Wayne V. 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