Judy B. is right, because the rudder will work very differently under sail than 
under power with an inboard. The water flowing past the rudder is going to try 
and get “behind” the rudder with the minimum amount of energy expended to get 
there. Under sail, the flow is laminar (smooth), and will also stay “attached” 
and flow cleanly around the rudder, providing sideforce the way a wing on an 
airplane provides lift. The center of effort is typically at about 25% of the 
chord length (width of the rudder in the direction of flow) aft of the leading 
edge. This will be behind the shaft centerline, which is the reaction of the 
sideforce, so the rudder wants to go straight, relative to the local flow. As 
the boat heels, the center of effort of the sail is not over the keel, but 
offset some distance to lee. The sail is pushing forward (thrust), the keel is 
holding back (drag), so the boat wants to turn to weather. This gets reacted by 
the forces on the rudder, which manifests itself as weather helm.
Under power from an inboard, the flow over the rudder is usually at a much 
higher velocity, and because of that plus the proximity of the prop to the 
rudder, is very turbulent (small scale phenomena) plus not very organized as 
per direction (due to swirl, capitation,etc.). The average flow is also running 
“downhill”, due to the driveshaft angle. If the rudder is turned far enough 
that it “stalls”, ie. the flow is no longer attached, the rudder doesn’t work 
like a wing anymore, it works like a door, and tries to blow open. Because of 
the combination of the stalled flow, the rudder shaft angle, and the driveshaft 
angle, the rudder’s lowest energy (most open) position is hard over.
Reverse is just a mess. Hydrodynamically, nothing works right in this 
direction. Try to back up as infrequently as possible.

Keith Sneddon

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Judith 
Blumhorst, DC
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [IC27A] a rudder with a mind of it's own


More descriptive details please..... How does it behave under sail power?  How 
does it handle under power? is the boat an inboard or outboard?

Take a look at this page:
http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/catalina-27-rudders.htm

The C27 is a nicely mannered boat when the rig is properly tuned and good sails 
that are properly trimmed.   I can sail my C27 with two fingers on the tiller 
just a couple of inches to windward of the centerline, in winds from 10 knots 
to 35 knots and higher gusts. (That's true before and after I replaced the OEM 
barn door rudder) if I take the time to set the right sail plan.
If the the tiller violently gets away from you under fully powered-up but not 
overpowered sailplan, you either have an inadequately tuned rig or an 
unbalanced sail plan.  If you're consistently heeling more than 30 degrees, the 
boat is carrying too much sail area  or the the sails are over-trimmed, and 
you' can expect to feel the boat try to round up hard.  Less likely but still 
possible, your boat is not sitting on her lines fore and aft.   Or, possibly  
your rudder is grossly asymetrical from one side to the other, a defect that is 
emphasized when the maximum foil is too far aft, like the OEM rudders.

Under power, it's a different story.   A little balance area on a rudder is 
generally a good thing under sail, decreasing tug & load on the tiller, but too 
much balance can cause problems when powering in forward with an outboard.  
Balance is not your friend when the prop is pushing water at the rudder.  The 
prop wash from the inboard tends to push her off course when I'm trying to go 
straight ahead under inboard power.

With the old OEM rudder, my C27 yawed strongly to port, and pulled very, very 
strongly.   That's because of two factors - the balance area on the rudder and 
an asymetry of the rudder foil.

Backing is always a problem if you let the rudder get too far from centerline.  
The longer the chord of the foil the longer the lever arm and the harder it is 
to keep on course.

Awaiting more info from you....  maybe it's something I've forgotten to mention,

Judy B
1977 C27 TR #3459 inboard
Sailing San Francisco Bay area



________________________________
From: RobAdkins <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 11:57:55 AM
Subject: [IC27A] a rudder with a mind of it's own



hi all,

upon first sailing my c27 i noticed the tiller can get away from me mighty 
quickly if i'm not careful. this was not the case with my old columbia which 
had a keel mounted rudder. i thought a bit, yes it did hurt, and after drawing 
pictures in my head i've come to the conclusion that a small percentage of the 
rudder, on my c27, is foreword of the rudder post. this would explain it's 
violent tendencies to leap from my hand when executing a sharp turn and it's 
equally violent resistance to coming back to center after said turn is 
complete. i'm wondering if anyone has any clue as to why this design "feature" 
exists. it does make the helm more responsive/sensitiv e under sail but while 
under motor it is a definite hazard. any info would be appreciated. thanks-rob


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