Sure people can do this, but what is the point?

Let us imagine that as a matter of national policy we are all to live in
smaller houses to save energy. In what respect would such a policy be
realized if everyone bought a second, smaller house and started occupying
both simultaneously?


The critical objective here is to create a situation where people can use
the Internet successfully without requiring a full IPv4 address.

It is not going to be the case that anyone can use pure IPv6 100% of the
time for several decades.

Getting people to use IPv6 is not an end in itself. If you have a full IPv4
address there is no point in using IPv6 in parallel.

Its like buying a Prius to show how ecological you are and towing it behind
your Hummer.


The case where this dual stack is going to make sense is where the user has
a shared IPv4 and clean IPv6 and there is a performance advantage to going
through the clean connection.

This is not something that I would want to have to code for as an
application programmer. I would want to have a call of the form 'get best
connection for (protocol, domain_name) and have the platform figure it out
using information that I would not want the application programmer to have
access to.

<eom>




On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Mark Andrews <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> In message <[email protected]>, Martin Rex
> writes
> :
> > Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > >
> > > However, see draft-wing-v6ops-happy-eyeballs-ipv6
> >
> > Yuk.  That approach appears to be from a completely different universe
> > that solutions to the IPv4->IPv6 migration issue.
> >
> > Instead of solving the problem where it originates, at the network level,
> > it dumps the entire problem onto the application in the worst conceivable
> > fashion.  It makes IPv6 and IPv4 worlds appear like two completely
> > seperate and independent Internets, i.e. this proposal incurs on apps
> > the exact same effort as migrating a completely different network
> protocol
> > or completely different network.
>
> The solution space is equally applicable to two IPv4 addresses or
> two IPv6 addresses.  You start one, wait a short while to see if
> it succeeds then start another, etc.  If the network is doing its
> job you get a error back from it before you start the second and
> you start it sooner.  If it isn't then you don't waste 30 seconds
> for the connect to timeout.
>
> If you have a abnormally long path then you get some embryonic
> connections.  500ms is more than enough time to wait for a terrestrial
> path to complete.  Sydney, Australia to Europe is high 3 hundreds
> to low 4 hundreds of milliseconds.
>
> % ~/a.out www.ripe.net
> connect_to_host(www.ripe.net) -> 3 in 376 ms
> %
>
> > If anyone had suggested that for a migration from PSTN to VoiP, then
> > everyone would have to use two phones these days, dial in parallel
> > and hang up on whichever call establishes second.
>
> I've seen plenty of people pick up one phone dial then put the call
> on speaker then pick up a second phone and dial a different number
> and put it on speaker when trying to reach someone with two numbers
> urgently.  They hang up which ever doesn't answer.
>
> > The problem that this draft tries to solve at the app-level really
> > ought to be solved at the network level.  Use IPv6 addresses that
> > embed the alternative IPv4 address and have the network figure out
> > whether the route is IPv6 clean and the connection can be established
> > as IPv6 or only IPv4. (IPv4-NATing the IPv4 part of such an
> > address along the way is probably "fun"...) ... for exactly those
> > network interfaces that _have_ dual IPv4+IPv6 addresses.
>
> Having good error recovery at the application layer hasn't been a
> issue until now because 99.99% of sites were single homed.  This
> is changing with almost a 100% of sites becoming multi-homed.  It's
> time the applications learned how to work well in such a environment.
>
> It might also mean that one might be able to stop having to deploy
> DNS servers that track reachability just to get some robustness
> that should have been there if clients wern't using naive connection
> strategies.
>
> B.T.W. the a.out above implements this sort of connection strategy
> with a 500 ms wait before attempting the second connection.  The
> wait for the 3rd connection is 250 ms, the 4th is 125 ms, the 5th
> is 62 ms.  You get the pattern.  There are poll, select and thread
> based versions.
>
> Mark
>
> > -Martin
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: [email protected]
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>



-- 
Website: http://hallambaker.com/
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

Reply via email to