----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Berger" <lber...@labn.net> To: "Melinda Shore" <melinda.sh...@gmail.com> Cc: <ietf@ietf.org> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 1:09 PM > Melinda, > I'm not so sure debating the merits of a specific measure has value or > not is really that helpful, and I probably just should have ignore this > small point. Let's say some limited measure of diversity is valid, what > do we learn from it? Is the conclusion that only one group is being > discriminated against and that the IETF needs to address this one > specific form of discrimination, or is it that the top of the IETF is > far from diverse? If the latter, I buy it -- the IETF has a diversity > issue. > > As many others have said, there are many forms of bias and > discrimination -- all of which are harmful, and only some of which have > the legal protection (in your favorite country) that they should. > Irrespective of any specific statistic, I think this discussion has > shown that there is consensus that working to eliminate bias and > discrimination *in all forms* from the IETF is worth paying attention > to. Do you disagree, are you saying that the IETF should only/first try > to address only gender bias? > > I personally think all IETF participants should have voice in this > discussion, no matter if they fall into an obviously discriminated > against group or not. This includes the full range of participants, > even newcomers, folks who have never authored an I-D, folks who by any > measure are significant I* contributors, and even "western white guys". > IMO the exclusion of any voice is itself a manifestation of bias.
I am in the happy position of not having attended an IETF meeting for a while and for many, perhaps most, of those active on the lists I track, I have no idea what they look like. White or black, western or eastern, I have no idea. An e-mail address of a CJK company used to suggest a person of eastern origins, now it just means that the CJK company has taken control of the western one. Sometimes I cannot even tell male or female, although the name used may give me a clue. In one case, an AD referred to a contribution as coming from a 'he' which is surely wrong, that is a woman's name; but I do not know, cannot tell, only that the contributions that she/he makes are valuable and I would be happy to see them as, e.g., AD. So perhaps, to reduce the bias, e.g. towards "western white", any system of choosing should give preference to the views of those who do not attend IETF meetings, for whom judgement is based solely on the contributions the person in question is seen to make - via the mailing lists - towards open standards and running code. Tom Petch (white, western) > Lou >
