WARNING: LONG EMAIL AHEAD! From: Kapil Hari Paranjape <[email protected]>
> > On Sat, 24 Oct 2009, Prem Kurian Philip wrote: >> However, the reality is that those who are going to be using a >> computer will at some point or the other have to invent new words > ^^^^^^ >> for disk, internet and so on because there are no words for this in >> Tamil/any other indian language. > > I thought your point is that such words should _not_ be invented and > the existing English words used instead. That is right. I don't necessarily believe that NO words should be invented but there are a number of very frequently used words (internet, disk etc) which can be used as is - that is, we can continue to use the English terms but transliterated phonetically into the Tamil/Malayalam/Hindi whatever language. There may be other words which aren't this frequently used which may be better understood if it is *translated* into regional languages rather than transliterated. > This is a sentiment that I wholly support. A language often borrows word > from other languages for concepts that it is borrowing. That is right. It also keeps the language dynamic and flexible. As more people use a language, it will necessarily need to expand - both in terms of vocabulary as well as in terms of different types of usage. If completely new terms are to be invented in Tamil each time a new word appears in English, then we will have a situation where even a Tamil speaker cannot understand the word. Also, this whole mindset that a language is diminished in some way if it directly absorbs words (even proper nouns) from other languages is not right and the extent to which some people go to translate words from other languages is absurd. Let me illustrate with an example in the opposite direction - the dish "iddy appam" is sometimes referred to as "thunder cakes" by Anglo-Indians. I have also heard it referred to as "Rice fritters" (or something similar). Thunder cakes is a direct translation word to word without considering context - iddy is the same term used for thunder but in this case iddy is also the malayalam word for pounding using a pestle. Iddy appam refers to the cake made using rice pounded on a pestle. Cake is a direct translation of "appam". Rice fritters is a better translation but it is more of a redefinition of the term - similar to saying oven-cooked-spicy-chicken as the word for Tandoori Chicken. The problem with these types of translation is that it does not take into consideration that "iddy appam" is actually a proper noun. It would be absurd if my name (Prem) is translated as "love" by someone abroad. So while we do the translation, it would also be good to keep in mind that proper nouns cannot be translated - they have to be transliterated. Example: When I was young, we used to refer to trains as "Thee vandi" (in Malayalam). Here "thee" means fire and "vandi" means vehicle. It made more sense when we had steam engines - but now with electric trains becoming the norm, this translation does not make much sense anymore. That is the problem with translating names using detailed descriptions - if I come up with a term for a bus in tamil/malayalam (example: 6-wheeled-people-carrying-big-vandi) and have a long winded name which is actually a description of the bus, then it will quickly become outdated as the technology changes. Also, long winded names are difficult to use and will get truncated in common usage very quickly.. or not get used at all. Also, even the English word "train" itself isn't a description of the vehicle. At best, the word train only refers to the fact that multiple compartments "train" each other. If instead of using the tamil translation of 6-wheeled-people-carrying-big-vandi, I come up with a new shorter word in tamil - example: buvandi :) (or something like that), then even tamilians won't know what the devil I am referring to if I say I am going in a buvandi.. then I will have to go to the trouble of expanding the tamil dictionary to say buvandi = 6-wheeled-people-carrying-big-vandi = bus. The common man would want to know why I didn't say bus in the first place instead of confusing them. :) So my suggestion is that we just use some of the more frequently used words in English instead of: a) Coming with long winded descriptive words in tamil/malayalam/whatever which will quickly get outdated, be too verbose for common usage and will therefore not be used or b) Invent new words which people won't recognize anyway. > > Later on as new concepts (about computers) are invented by people > who speak Tamil (or other Indian languages) they will use concepts > from these languages to make words for these new inventions and we > will be only too happy to see these words entering languages like > English. After all "dosa", "chutney" and "tikka" are now considered > English words. That is right. Regards, Prem _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, email [email protected] with "unsubscribe <password> <address>" in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
