On 2012-10-11 14:30:14 +0000, Mark Sienkiewicz said:
On 10/10/12 23:12, Alex Clark wrote:
On 2012-10-11 02:57:07 +0000, Brian Crowell said:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:07 PM, Alex Clark <acl...@aclark.net> wrote:
No. But maybe a single "Python 3 support" ticket in the relevant branch
(https://bitbucket.org/effbot/pil-2009-raclette). IIUC, PIL has some Python
support added. One possible scenario is that we take that code and release
it.
Do you consider Raclette your upstream? Also, I'm reading through the
Python 3 patches on there.
Yes. IIUC that's where there the latest PIL work is/was taking place.
The last commit I see there is 2011-06-28, which is quite some time
ago. Have you confirmed with Fredrik Lundh that PIL is still under
active development? Do you have an agreement with him about how Pillow
and PIL will interact?
I presume that Pillow is a fork because he is unable or unwilling to
apply the patches that you need and make a release. There are various
good reasons that can happen, but for our purposes, it is only
important that it _has_ happened.
I expect a Python 3 port to be a big change. The more changes you
make, the harder it will be to bring in patches from the old code base.
I can see wanting to track the original PIL, but it is common for a
free software project eventually reach a state where the original
author is no longer able to continue developing it.
If that has happened to PIL, then we have some questions to consider:
Is it time for a new maintainer for PIL? Is it time for Pillow and PIL
to go their separate ways? Is it time to find a way to merge the two
projects?
I don't have any answers, but it seems to me that those are relevant questions.
Sure, and most if not all of these questions have been discussed on
this list in the past (see:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/). I'll give a brief recap:
- Re: PIL development. No idea what's going on. I assume it's dead or
moving very slow. And yes, Pillow is a fork. Fredrik has commented on
Pillow on this list, but I don't have the archive link handy. It was
something to the effect "I'm glad someone is doing something besides
complaining".
- Re: Changing away from PIL. Pillow is "the friendly PIL fork" so we
will always try to do what is best for both projects (including
tracking issues between projects, etc). But Pillow is first and
foremost: practical. Adding Python 3 support is a practical matter
whose time has come. If this change causes Pillow to drift further from
PIL, then so be it. Pillow *is* PIL, so I don't think it matters that
much. People will gravitate (as they have already) toward what works
and what is well maintained. Should Pillow become PIL? No idea.
Probably not yet, if ever. Maybe after Python 3 compat is added, but
even then it's not going to be something I will push for or be too
interested in (not to say I wouldn't consider it, if that should become
necessary).
Alex
Essentially all I'm going to do is update the Python source to where
it meets Py3 syntax and library requirements, get the extension
modules to build under both Py2 and Py3, then futz with the bytes/str
division using the three existing ports as a guide. After that, all we
should need is solid testing.
Lundh seemed to expect to be able to
support much older versions of Python, which really wouldn't have
worked when he hit the Python source. I'm going to go with a cleaner
approach.
+1. This would be the time for others to weigh in I guess. Is this what
folks generally want to see from PIL/Pillow wrt to Python 3 support?
+1. I have no reason to expect we will get Python 3 support any other
way. I mentioned before that I am not concerned with compatibility
with very old Python versions (I already have PIL for those systems),
so a simple and clean port looks like the way to go.
Mark S.
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