Oh, yeah, and on an unrelated note, I wouldn't depend on
Imail's copyall account, or more specifically rules placed on that copyall
account. They are not configurable enough without getting into heavy
regex to reliably make sure that ONLY example.com's emails are in
example.com's archive. The rules referenced earlier in this thread
search the whole headers for the domain name. I tried to archive all
emails for taisweb.net. My mail server's name is mail.taisweb.net, and
my gateway is mx2.taisweb.net. Therefore ALL incoming email for ALL
domains was archived using the example rule from the Ipswitch kb, since that
mail server's name was in the headers. I can't just search for
@taisweb.net because some mail does arrive for
@mail.taisweb.net.
I found other instances where email ended up in the wrong
archive. For instance, as an ISP we communicate with each other
frequently about our customers. Say we host example.com and have a rule
like the IPSwitch kb rule for example.com. If I write an email to my
boss with a subject of "example.com didn't pay us yet", that subject is in the
headers and gets copied to example.com's archive, even though it is a private
internal email.
These are just a couple of examples, but it shows that
searching the entire headers for a domain name is woefully inadequate for good
email archiving. This is just one more reason why we are moving away
from Imail to an OSS solution based around postfix.
What is needed is a way to filter on the final recipient
INCLUDING bcc's. In other words we need to be able to filter on the
evelope recipient, but Imail has already forgotten about the envelope by the
time it reaches the copyall rules. Postfix has a few things that work,
such as "always_bcc", "recipient_bcc_maps" and "sender_bcc_maps", among
others.
Dan Horne
Dave, your comparison to the US Postal Service is not
valid. The US Postal Service is afforded protection by law, you are
not. If you run a mail server and sell that service to a customer you
have responsibility well beyond that of the US Postal Service. You are
responsible to maintain a system that provides mail service to the "reasonable
expectations of a reasonable customer". That means that your customers
can expect that any valid messages sent to or by them will be
delivered by your system. Your liability far exceeds any fees you may
charge, and any disclaimers are probably worthless.
I followed the case of a mid-sized ISP in my state that
was sued by customer (who happened to be an attorney) for non-delivery, and
non-notification of email messages. I sat and listened in the court for
most of a week. The ISP was on several black lists due mostly to a
misconfiguration on their part. The customers messages were not
delivered, and the ISP failed to notify the customer that their mail server
was "blacklisted", and the ISP failed to correct the misconfiguration
even when they became aware of the issue. The attorney showed about
$125,000.00 in damages. The ISP had a TOS posted on their web page, but
they had no signed contract so the judge ignored the TOS which apparently
covered the ISP. The verdict? The attorney won $125,000 in actual
damages, $32,000 in legal and court costs, and $50,000 in punitive
damages. This was in a state court and cited state law (which vary
considerably), but it seemed that the attorney would have been in a better
position in federal court. He cited many CFR's that the judge
didn't want to hear. This case came down to the issue that if you hold
yourself out as expert enough to run a mail server and sell the service you
had better be expert enough to do it right.
As for the mail archive issue. If you tell a
customer you are archiving their messages you had better use all reasonable
care and caution to make sure you do exactly that. That would mean
regular backups, and off site storage. Doesn't matter if you're being
paid for it or not... I assure you that you are responsible.
We provide a monthly mail archive service for one
customer. We charge $35 per month for that service. We burn a CD
with a .pst file on it monthly and send it to them with their
bill. We've made it clear to this customer, and all other
customers, that we do not maintain an archive of files.
-Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:53
AM
Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] copyall
fee?
We are not responsible for their email anymore than the US
Postal Service is for a lost letter, Christmas card or package and unlike
the Post Office or FedEx/UPS we don't offer insured delivery or even a
guarantee that the mail will be delivered. We provide a place for mail
to be sent to and they are responsible for picking it up. That applies
to personal or business email accounts and is the same for the cache of
emails that we accumulate for them of all the email sent to and from their
business. They are responsible for downloading and storing that
mail. We are simply making it easier for them by accumulating ALL that
mail into a single mailbox so that they can archive it without having to
deal with multiple MBX or PST files on all their user systems.
Now if
we were doing what you SEEM to be saying which is to provide off-site
storage for that archive on an ongoing basis then yes we would charge for
that since in addition to the assumed responsibility for securing and
maintaining the archive there would be the issues of storage cost either on
disc, tape whatever.
One client that we do this for pulls the mail
using Eudora and then uses the filters in Eudora to separate the mail into
individual mail folders by user and then into subfolders based on
sent/received.
At 08:31 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
Well, I just know if we're
going to be responsible for something that means we can be held
responsible as well.
Kevin Bilbee wrote:
We do not keep the emails. We use rules to place
the messages in a box for them to download. We do not store or archive
the messages for them beyone what is done for any other mail
account.
A little parinoid are
we!!!!!
Kevin Bilbee
- -----Original Message-----
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Matrosity Tech Support
- Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:36 PM
- To: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] copyall fee?
- so when the FCC calls about emails and your client turns to you
for them you're ok with value add. God help your business when they
sue you for not having the emails.
- Kevin Bilbee wrote:
- We think this
is a feature we can add that will make our customers happy that we
offer it and is just another feather in our cap. We do not like to
nickel and dime our customers.
- Kevin
Bilbee
- -----Original Message-----
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Matrosity Tech Support
- Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:28 PM
- To: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] copyall fee?
- so you take ownership and responsibility for their email as a
value add?
- Dave Riddle wrote:
- We don't charge for this
- At 02:47 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
- everyone seems to be ignoring the question of cost for
providing this?
- Kevin Bilbee wrote:
Caopy all will caopy all mail in the IP even virtual domains
you
- will need
- to setup a rules on the copy all account to sort the messages by
- domains.
- We use it for backup purposes for our clients.
- Kevin Bilbee
-
-----Original Message-----
- From:
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- [
-
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matrosity
- Tech
- Support
- Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:36 AM
- To:
- [email protected]
- Subject: [IMail Forum] copyall fee?
- What are you guys charging (if anything) to customers for a copyall
- service? It appears you can really only do this for one domain as
well.
- Bill
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