Thanks everybody for your input! We are working on our Wiki page and on the actual workflow. The responses gave us great ideas which we will use in our planning. I will post back once we get the wiki finished.
Thanks again - Malcolm T Meyer Transportation Planning Coordinator, OVRDC (740) 947-2853 ext. 20219 [email protected] ------ Original Message ------ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: 8/14/2016 8:00:08 AM Subject: Imports-us Digest, Vol 39, Issue 3 >Send Imports-us mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > >You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Imports-us digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import (Malcolm Meyer) > 2. Re: Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import (Greg Troxel) > 3. Re: Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import (Frederik Ramm) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 12:36:02 +0000 >From: Malcolm Meyer <[email protected]> >To: Greg Troxel <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Imports-us] Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import >Message-ID: > ><65997df617652277.41ccf9c7-046f-463f-9399-87ebadf5e...@mail.outlook.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Ok, that all sounds doable, but the thing that you said that makes me >pause is 'the code needed to transform the data'. I have been under the >assumtion that I can just import something like geojson into JOSM or >another editor, assuming all the feature properties match. Or maybe >there is a geojson to xml converter or something. The imports will be >in chunks, so 2,000 features at a time or something. Is this not the >case? Is there not an 'import' method using one of the desktop editors? >If not then could you point me in the direction of the actual import >process. All the other communication stuff I have no problem with. > >Overall, considering I could probably map these in a few days directly >into OSM, this while process seems a bit absurd. If we get another >intern I may have them do just that, though it may take them a bit >longer. The problem is we cannot use the direct OSM iD mapping as our >only solution due to the license. All of the data we create must be in >the public domain - so hence creating it ourselves outside OSM then >doing the import. However I didnt realize the import process would be >so complicated. > >But once I figure all this out, when I am ready to import another >city's sidewalks, do I have to do all this stuff again, or can I just >use this same wiki/communication/procedure, etc for the remainder of >our cities once they are complete? > >Thanks > >Malcolm Meyer >Transportation Planning Coordinator >Ohio Valley Regional Development Commission >(740) 947-2853 >[email protected] > > > >On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:09 PM -0400, "Greg Troxel" ><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >Malcolm Meyer <[email protected]> writes: > >> Basically we will follow the sidewalk proposal outlined here - >>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/sidewalk_schema >> >> For example - >> >> highway = footway, footway = sidewalk; >> highway = crossing, crossing = uncontrolled >> >> We collected pedestrian signals so for those we would use "crossing = >>traffic_signals". >> We also collected curb ramp information, so for those we would use >> "kerb = flush". How to extract those as points, then merge those >> points back to the nodes of the crossings, that is something I will >> have to look into. >> >> I am looking for specific guidance for this process, more than what >>is >> outlined in the wiki. For anyone with prior experience on importing >> please email me directly. > >I am basically pro-import, but my advice is that importing is almost >certainly harder than you think. > >First, publish your raw data in the native form with a clear statement >of PDness. By publish, I mean so that any random mapper can download >and use it. Announce it on talk-us. PUt a link in your state's wiki >page. > >Publish code to transform the raw datato OSM format. Comment that >heavily to describe what you are doing for tags and why. Publish code >to take that and the actual OSM database and generate .osc files or >some >other way to get exactly what an import would do. Note that at this >point, you can render your own osm+your_data maps, without importing, >and without needing permission. > >Find the mappers in your state. Meet them in person. Ask them for >help. > >When doing the above, ask for help if anything isn't obvious. > >Then, return to thinking about the actual import. > >(Based on helping with a building import in Mass, where many of us have >met each other in person, and some merely have been emailing for >years.) > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 08:51:46 -0400 >From: Greg Troxel <[email protected]> >To: Malcolm Meyer <[email protected]> >Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Imports-us] Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > >Malcolm Meyer <[email protected]> writes: > >> Ok, that all sounds doable, but the thing that you said that makes me >> pause is 'the code needed to transform the data'. I have been under >> the assumtion that I can just import something like geojson into JOSM >> or another editor, assuming all the feature properties match. Or >>maybe >> there is a geojson to xml converter or something. The imports will be >> in chunks, so 2,000 features at a time or something. Is this not the >> case? Is there not an 'import' method using one of the desktop >> editors? If not then could you point me in the direction of the >>actual >> import process. All the other communication stuff I have no problem >> with. > >I said code, because usually people write scripts in python or >something >to read shapefiles with properties from some traditional GIS and them >emit OSM data with tags, and the scripts encode the logic. If you have >actually produced data in OSM format already, except that it's in >geojson instead of osm xml, but it follows the OSM tagging schema, >that's another story. > >Using GIS tools instead of scripts is ok, too, but the point is that >you >should explain enough so that someone else can take your raw data and >run the transformation pipeline. If you have multiple people you'll >want this written down anyway, so I hope this is mostly just >transparency and not a lot of extra work. > >The big point is that you have a dataset and OSM does too and just >"squirt X into OSM" in general risks duplicate objects; conflation is >hard. So to succeed you need a story about that, and the process just >makes you write that down for others to read. > >> Overall, considering I could probably map these in a few days >>directly >> into OSM, this while process seems a bit absurd. If we get another > >The import guidelines attempt to deal with much larger scale things, >and >we sort the world into mapping by hand and mechanical edits. > >> intern I may have them do just that, though it may take them a bit >> longer. The problem is we cannot use the direct OSM iD mapping as our >> only solution due to the license. All of the data we create must be >>in >> the public domain - so hence creating it ourselves outside OSM then >> doing the import. However I didnt realize the import process would be >> so complicated. > >I am pretty sure that you can check a box on registering that your >edits >are public domain, and I am 99% sure that extracting your own work (not >subsequently edited by others) from the DB after editing and using it >as >PD is ok. A question for talk-legal. Certainly OSM should encourage >governments to do things like this; I think most US mappers are quite >happy for government data to be PD even if round-tripped through OSM. >What most are not ok with is proprietary copies of the DB with other >data being used, and denying those improvements to the commons. > >> But once I figure all this out, when I am ready to import another >> city's sidewalks, do I have to do all this stuff again, or can I just >> use this same wiki/communication/procedure, etc for the remainder of >> our cities once they are complete? > >Generally, once an import passes muster, then continuing with the same >kind of source data and the same processing pipeline is ok. > >In your case, it sounds like this is large scale hand mapping with some >different tools, and right on the edge. The process and discussion >have >evolved to avoid problems. So really it's about explaining what you >are doing in enough detail that people who have seen the problems can >point them out before they happen. > >So how about you first publish the data you are talking about, and >start >a page that explains where it came from, and how you decided on tagging >and what standards you are following, and people can have a look? I >think most here would like to encourage governments putting in data, >especially if there's an intent to maintain it. > >You probably also should think about what happens as you update your >local data, and then it's different from what's in OSM. That could be >because OSM is your old data and doing an updated into OSM is ok, or >because someone in OSM edited it, in which case overwriting their >change >is not ok. > >Also, separately from the import, you can use the OSM tools with your >own database and your own license. But I think getting the data into >OSM is a good thing. > >Keep in mind that I'm one person, and while I think my thoughts are >mainstream, I'm not speaking authoratively for the group. >-------------- next part -------------- >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >Name: signature.asc >Type: application/pgp-signature >Size: 180 bytes >Desc: not available >URL: ><http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports-us/attachments/20160813/765dc144/attachment-0001.sig> > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 15:25:30 +0200 >From: Frederik Ramm <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [Imports-us] Rural SE Ohio Sidewalks Import >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Malcolm, > >On 08/13/2016 02:36 PM, Malcolm Meyer wrote: >> Ok, that all sounds doable, but the thing that you said that makes me >> pause is 'the code needed to transform the data'. I have been under >> the assumtion that I can just import something like geojson into JOSM >> or another editor, assuming all the feature properties match. > >OSM generally assumes that the uploader takes responsiblity for what >they're importing and how it relates to what is already in OSM. That's >why we don't encourage any form of "just importing a GeoJSON" becuase >this often makes people careless. If, for example, one of your imported >sidewalks runs straight through a house in OSM or overlaps with a >street, then the expectation is that the importer double-checks and >either fixes their data or the street/house that already is in OSM. And >if OSM already has sidewalks in an area, then the importer would be >expected to make sure that there are no duplicates. > >While "GeoJSON import" and "diligent checking" don't exclude one >another, we want to be very careful to avoid the misconception that you >could "simply upload" data (without diligent checking). > >The JOSM editor can open shape files and upload them to OSM. > >Having said all that, there's been a discussion about the importing of >sidewalks just last week on the tagging and talk-us lists. Mapping >sidewalks as individual geometries is not a cure-all for pedestrian >routing; it solves some problems and creates others. (For example, I'm >from Europe so I don't know US regulations but I heard that in some >places it is illegal for pedestrians to simply cross a road and in >others it's ok. If it is illegal in your area then does your data >contain all the legal crossings - or if it is legal then what is the >concept for routing engines to allow crossing?) > >Bye >Frederik > >-- >Frederik Ramm ## eMail [email protected] ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > > > >------------------------------ > >Subject: Digest Footer > >_______________________________________________ >Imports-us mailing list >[email protected] >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us > > >------------------------------ > >End of Imports-us Digest, Vol 39, Issue 3 >***************************************** _______________________________________________ Imports-us mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us
