On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Jo <[email protected]> wrote: > I would say that even though they quack almost exactly the same, they are > still different kinds of ducks. The best way to proceed is to create a > specific tag for them and you can even ask to have it rendered almost > exactly the same as the official living streets. >
I had exactly the same thought as you Jo but I'd suggest this train has left the station. Jakko describes a quite common usage of living_street. I had the exact same experience as he describes below when starting to map in India. There, a residential street where pedestrians have right of way is commonly mapped as a living street. Different from a pedestrian zone, vehicular traffic is not restricted except for maybe (expected) speed limits. > Polyglot > > 2016-01-26 16:15 GMT+01:00 Jaakko Helleranta <[email protected]>: > >> Just a brief comment on using living_street in contexts where the road is >> not legally defined as a living street. >> >> I was facing a similar situation first in Haiti 3-4 years ago (where I >> lived and mapped extensively in close collaboration with local mappers for >> three years) and then in Nicaragua where same has happened for over two >> years now. >> >> I think that the situation is quite simple: >> The characteristics of various roads are very clearly in line with the >> characteristics that define a legal living street, namely where there is a >> lot of non-vehicular activity both _on_ the road and on its both sides AND >> where pedestrians have undeniable right of way over vehicles. In Haiti I >> was saying, "If you'd drive these roads not giving way to pedestrians your >> car would be stoned." >> >> Since I started to ponder about the appropriate tagging of these roads >> I've learned that the living_street tag is used quite broadly / extensively >> in various countries with similar settings as Haiti and Nicaragua (and >> where there often is no such thing as a legally defined living street). >> >> In summary, I think it would be a bit ignorant or/and foolish for those >> without understanding of the on-the-ground realities of these countries to >> claim that living_street is an inappropriate tag. At least until there is a >> "unofficial_living_street" tag to replace it. Regular residential roads >> these are not. >> >> I have a pile of street view pictures from both Haiti and Nicaragua to >> help understand the situation on the ground if someone wants to look into >> this on a practical level. You can start by downloading all living streets >> in Managua, Nicaragua to JOSM and looking at the photos available in >> Mapillary for these roads. >> >> With best regards from Managua, >> -Jaakko >> >> -- >> Sent from my mobile device. >> On Jan 24, 2016 7:44 PM, "Mikel Maron" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Thanks for investigating the data issues Sander. As I did when you >>> contacted me last week, I'll explain the issues here as I see them, and >>> discuss some simple ways I'll see to getting them fixed. >>> >>> On the "Bad Imports" page, this new process is unnecessary. There is >>> already a substantial process for managing imports and resolving data >>> issues, documented in the wiki and managed by the DWG. >>> >>> On the data in Enugu, my role in the original import was to advise >>> colleagues involved directly in the data collection and import, and then to >>> make some repairs to the roads (that is why I appear as the first editor of >>> many features). There are two issues. >>> >>> One is "living_street". My understanding is that they used >>> "living_street" in cases of unpaved residential roads, because there is a >>> great amount of activity directly on these roads, and "resembled" living >>> streets in the EU. There is no legal definition of living street in >>> Nigeria. At the time of the import, I didn't totally agree with the >>> classification, but didn't think it that important. Given the question on >>> classification now, I think it's best to improve this, and will do so, by >>> changing classification to residential road. >>> >>> Second, there are a good number of tags on POI that should not have been >>> included in a related import of Enugu (for example >>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2460130808/history). The simple >>> solution here is to identify those tags, and remove them, and I will see to >>> this as well. >>> >>> -Mikel >>> >>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, January 24, 2016 6:23 PM, Daniel O'Connor < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Re Enugu, see >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-August/002112.html >>> for some of the discussion around this data. >>> >>> Mikel Maron (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mikel) is the chap >>> with the main user account for the roads data. >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 3:04 AM, Sander Deryckere <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Meanwhile I contacted some users and documented the contacts in the wiki. >>> >>> If anyone finds other harmful imports, or has an opinion on the >>> mentioned imports, please add them to the wiki. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sander >>> >>> >>> 2016-01-24 15:53 GMT+01:00 Sander Deryckere <[email protected]>: >>> >>> I recently discovered a number of bad imports, but found out it's hard >>> to discuss those, and keep track of those discussions, as there's no >>> central platform where that could happen. >>> >>> There are f.e. changeset discussions, but when the importer doesn't >>> answer, you don't get notified anymore, and nobody else will keep an eye on >>> it. >>> >>> So I started a wiki page to gather information about bad imports, >>> together with an initial procedure to handle those (giving some times to >>> allow discussion and cleanups). >>> >>> see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bad_imports >>> >>> I already documented some bad imports there, but not yet who I contacted >>> (though I contacted two importers via changeset messages, and that will be >>> hard to find back if they don't react). >>> >>> If any of you find bad imports, I should ask you to also add them to the >>> list, and regularly keep an eye on the list. When that list gets used more >>> often, we won't lose track of those discussions anymore. >>> >>> If you have any remarks on the procedure, feel free to raise concerns. >>> But I like some hard dates as else people wonder whether it would be ok to >>> revert it already or not. And I think the current terms are reasonable. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Sander >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Imports mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Imports mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Imports mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Imports mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Imports mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports > >
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