Many thanks Surajit ji. Regards. Dinesh
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:29 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear Dear Dinesh Ji, > > Please do not say apology. Whatever i i have learned about flora is all > from you, Gurcharan Sir, Satish Sir....... recently Santosh Sir, Radha Ji.. > .... each and every member in this group. > > I argue, to learn, to find the truth, as you have said in another mail - > all of us. Nothing personal. As you have also said expressions vary from > person to person, while communicating. > > Thank you, > > Regards, > surajit > > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Dear Surajit ji, >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> - what Dinesh Ji says? >> >> Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i >> wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and >> Gurucharan Ji's! >> Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he >> identifies a 15 ft >> tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or >> shrub, whatever it may) as >> *I. polyantha*!!! >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> That was my blunder of putting the guess as *I. polyantha*. >> Got carried away looking at the rather lax inflorescence - more nearer >> look-wise to *I. polyantha* than *I. finlaysoniana* ... I totally missed >> seeing the words 15 ft tree. >> Certainly my guess has added to your confusion. >> Please accept my apologies. >> >> Regards. >> Dinesh >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Great! I was expecting this! Why so hurry dear Santosh Sir, to reach to >>> a conclusion? >>> >>> Don't you think all of you are contradicting yourselves? >>> >>> Let's see who has *Ixora polyantha* in our group. Certainly you have >>> one, uploaded twice and validated by yourself and Radha Ji. Gurcharan Sir >>> has one. DInesh Ji has one. And..... well, i will come to this later. >>> Should i paste here the links? I skip for the time being. >>> >>> >>> - What Radha Ji informs? >>> >>> Again i copy a few words i received from Radha Ji - 1) "....you can see >>> red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. *This is a very >>> noticeable feature.*...." 2) "Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted >>> a clear photo of I polyantha which should clear your doubts" >>> >>> Do you think i need to get my eyes checked by a good optician/doctor. >>> Because i fail to see any red calyx in your post(s) or in post(s) by >>> Gurcharan Sir. >>> >>> >>> - what Dinesh Ji says? >>> >>> Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i >>> wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and >>> Gurucharan Ji's! >>> Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he >>> identifies a 15 ft >>> tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or >>> shrub, whatever it may) as >>> *I. polyantha*!!! >>> >>> >>> - what Satish Sir says? >>> >>> Well, i am yet to see Satish Ji's cards. >>> >>> >>> - what is red calyx - white Ixora? >>> >>> How do i know Radha JI is correct? She contradicts herself. Besides >>> there is an illustration - >>> http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985 showing >>> red calyx-white flowers, which is *I chinensis* Lam. Moreover, one >>> eflora informs flowers of *I.finlaysoniana* are >>> cream-white<http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION>!!! >>> Of course some creams are pure white too!!! >>> >>> >>> - globose or flatter heads? >>> >>> What i happens if i show you flatter head with few flowers in this very >>> tree? >>> >>> >>> - tree or shrub? >>> >>> That's the only point you have, not strong enough. You know it far >>> better than me that cultivated plants defy many rules. >>> >>> None of you could show white hairs (sometimes, not always), hairy calyx >>> (pubescent, not hairy), stipules or other identifying characters in your >>> uploads. Hint of white patch can be found in Dinesh Ji's post, not sure if >>> those are white hairs or moulds, equally not sure if that is *I. >>> polyantha* or some other. So much contradicting posts and >>> identification!!! >>> >>> Very interesting, isn't it? >>> >>> Regards, >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Dr Santhosh Kumar < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Finally it may be concluded that your plant is Ixora finlaysoniana not >>>> I.polyantha >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12 May 2013 11:28, surajit koley <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Sir. >>>>> My understanding is a bit different. All the points i have found about >>>>> the two species, in various literature, FoC+FoP, and other sites, i >>>>> think, >>>>> are not distinctive enough to come to any conclusion, specially when the >>>>> plants under consideration are selective cultivars. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for a very detailed analysis with links. It should >>>>>> go a long way finally nailing the identity. My understanding of >>>>>> differences >>>>>> between two species under discussion is as under: >>>>>> >>>>>> I. polyantha >>>>>> I. finlaysoniana >>>>>> 1. Small shrub >>>>>> 1. Shrub or tree reaching up to 18 feet >>>>>> 2. stipules broadly ovate >>>>>> 2. Stipules triangular-ovate >>>>>> 3. Leaves 15-30 cm long 3. >>>>>> Leaves 10-17 cm long >>>>>> 4. Cymes densely covered with white hairs 4. Cymes >>>>>> puberulous, not with white hairs >>>>>> 5. Calyx hairy, tube 3-5 mm long, 5. >>>>>> Calyx glabrous, tube 1-1.5 mm long, >>>>>> lobes 6-8 mm long >>>>>> lobes 4-6 mm long. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 7:23 AM, radha veach <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the points I have written to you are based on my own observations of >>>>>>> the two plants in the field and later confirmed by written texts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the end all we have are our own experiences which we can offer to >>>>>>> others. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> best regards >>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11 May 2013 22:30, surajit koley >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Madam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the points to be remembered about *I. >>>>>>>> polyantha* and *I. finlaysoniana*. Some confusions still exist - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Yes, it is so in Cooke - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ia600406.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=floraofpresidenc01cook&itemPath=%2F21%2Fitems%2Ffloraofpresidenc01cook&server=ia600406.us.archive.org&page=n626_w299 >>>>>>>> - Also in Talbot - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/TalbotTreesBombay/TalbotTreesBombayPresidency#page/n323/mode/2up >>>>>>>> - But not in Hooker - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ia700609.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot21753000004407&itemPath=%2F0%2Fitems%2Fmobot21753000004407&server=ia700609.us.archive.org&page=n143_w291 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>>>> buildings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - I do not know about habitat, so i should refrain here. >>>>>>>> However, Hooghly is a moist area and FoP informs it is cultivated in >>>>>>>> Pakistan. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Cooke - "Flowers in corymbiform cymes open or collected into >>>>>>>> a globose head" >>>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>>> - Hooker - "...... or open very-many flowered branches >>>>>>>> robust..." and " ... collected into globose sessile head...." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Cooke - ".. usually densely clothed with white hairs....." >>>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>>> - Hooker - " .... sometimes white with dense woolly spreading >>>>>>>> hair..." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and >>>>>>>> often the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly than >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> flat leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Cooke - (in *I. polyantha*) petiole 1/8 to 3/8 th in. long. >>>>>>>> That translates to about 3 mm to 9,5 mm, which is almost same as >>>>>>>> *Ixora finlaysoniana* in FoC >>>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>>> - Hooker - leaves sessile or short petioled >>>>>>>> - Again i refrain about wrinkly leaves, because nothing found >>>>>>>> anywhere >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they >>>>>>>> are ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting >>>>>>>> flowers. >>>>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - nothing found on red calyx lobes in Talbot and Hooker. Ripe >>>>>>>> fruits are red in Cooke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now, for winkled leaves, red calyx, please check - >>>>>>>> http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Found *Ixora finlaysoniana* - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id182195/?taxonid=213548 >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ecflora.cavehill.uwi.edu/vhdetail.php?did=2438&sn=Ixora+finlaysoniana >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I skipped eFI posts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:55 AM, radhaveach >>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you read the descriptions of Ixora polyantha in Cooke's Flora >>>>>>>>> or in Talbot's Forest Flora of Bombay Presidency and Sind and compare >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> to the Flora of China description of Ixora finlaysoniana you will >>>>>>>>> have all >>>>>>>>> the answers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The obvious differences which can be seen in a photograph are as >>>>>>>>> follows: >>>>>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>>>>> buildings. >>>>>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and >>>>>>>>> often the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly >>>>>>>>> than the >>>>>>>>> flat leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they >>>>>>>>> are ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting >>>>>>>>> flowers. >>>>>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature. >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted a clear photo of I >>>>>>>>> polyantha which should clear your doubts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as I remember I. polyantha is also fragrant. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I apologise if my previous reply cause some frustration. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Requesting experts to add their comments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, May 10, 2013 9:59:35 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Radha Ji. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Thank you very much.* But, why don't you think it is *Ixora >>>>>>>>>> polyantha* ? I have two queries - >>>>>>>>>> 1) Is *I. polyantha* fragrant? >>>>>>>>>> 2) How do you differentiate the two species? >>>>>>>>>> I searched, but - https://groups.google.com/d/** >>>>>>>>>> msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/**OLriIyMe4iYJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/OLriIyMe4iYJ> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Toptropical, Dave's, The Plant List conflict with each other. So >>>>>>>>>> does FoC or FoP. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Thank you once again.* >>>>>>>>>> *Regards,* >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 10 May 2013 15:05:35 UTC+5:30, radhaveach wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think this is Ixora polyantha. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please see this efi post: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**forum/#!searchin/** >>>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$**20Week$3A$20Ixora$** >>>>>>>>>>> 20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$**20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/** >>>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/**MnVH4bqpQigJ<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21searchin/indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$20Week$3A$20Ixora$20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/MnVH4bqpQigJ> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From this it seems that the commonly cultivated Ixora in many >>>>>>>>>>> gardens is *Ixora finlaysoniana* Wall. ex G. Don, Gen. Hist. 3: >>>>>>>>>>> 572 1834 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:32:14 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a tree with highly scented big flowers. It cannot be *I. >>>>>>>>>>>> parviflora* Vahl (*I. pavetta* >>>>>>>>>>>> Andr.<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=242423581>), >>>>>>>>>>>> neither *I. undulata* Roxb. >>>>>>>>>>>> Photos were taken on 06-April-2013, in Hooghly. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/aeWdGDgGt8I/unsubscribe?hl=en >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>>>>>>>> to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> SANTHOSH >>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>> Dr. E.S. Santhosh Kumar MSc, PhD, FIAT, FLS (on leave for 2 years) >>>> Jawaharlal Nehru Tropical Botanic Garden and Research Institute, Palode >>>> Thiruvananthapuram-695562 >>>> Kerala >>>> India >>>> www.drsanthosh.wetpaint.com >>>> >>>> Presently working for the British Aerospace, Riyadh, KSA >>>> NB: Please consider your environmental responsibility! Ask yourself >>>> before printing this email !!! >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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