---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: chrischadwell...@btinternet.com <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com> Date: 14 October 2016 at 23:21 Subject: Re: SK126OCT042016:ID To: efloraofindia <email@example.com> Cc: jmga...@gmail.com
Dear Saroj One always must be ultra cautious when suggesting species names for *Berberis*. I often go on about difficult genera identification-wise. This genus is seriously challenging. Mr Tebbs who prepared the account for Berberidaceae within 'An Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' (Vol II, 1979) commented that his list was based mainly on the work of Ahrendt in 1961. However, various problems still remain. A critical revision of this genus is urgently needed based upon the abundant material recently collected in Nepal and adjacent regions. As far as I know the situation remains the same today! Work has been done in China (though differences of opinion have arisen) and I believe work is underway covering the extreme East of the Himalaya/NE India but how much that will help in Nepal, remains to be seen (and the Indian Western Himalaya of course). 'Flowers of the Himalaya' say, "Individual species are often difficult to distinguish from each other". I have come across quite a number of Berberis in various parts of the Himalaya and remain uncertain as to their identity. *So IF someone with expertise in this genus in the main Himalaya incl. Nepal exists and is available to view these images and comment with authority, that would be great but in the mean time we must be careful in our attempts at naming.* *For the present, I will comment as best I can, having not attempted to make a special study of Berberis in the Himalaya.* Only having a very poor pressed specimen at Kew to go on see: http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000340245 and the information in 'Flora of Bhutan' Vol 1 Part 2 (1984) where the leaves are described as elliptic (which hardly fits the specimen at Kew) including it is only recorded from Bhutan and not Sikkim, making a record from the Kathmandu Valley unlikely. I do not consider it comes near to *B.griffithiana*. There was no record for *B.griffithiana* in the Nepal Enumeration. Grierson who wrote the account of Berberidaceae for this Flora commented about the great variability within this genus numerous varieties have been created; for the sake of simplicity these were largely ignored and he discounted several old records of Berberis species supposedly found in the E.Himalaya. As for the definite ident of *B.aristata* - I really cannot be sure. The fruits are immature, so that does not help and the non-close-up views of foliage do not match so images which may be reliable, such as in 'Flowers of the Himalaya'. I also consider the closer view of the undersurface of a leaf is not consistent with the strictly limited detail I have about this species. The foliage shown in a number of pressed specimens at Kew (see e.g.: http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K001113173) shows variation. I have consulted 'The Flora of Kathmandu Valley' - this lists 4 species: *B.wallichiana*, *B.asiatica*, *B.chitria* and *B.aristata*. Clearly, and with due respect, this was a highly provisional account especially for such a difficult genus. I found the descriptions of the species somewhat contradictory. Certainly, altitude-wise, what they took to be *B.aristata* (but that is no guarantee of the identification) was found at elevations of 2400-2700m, which is consistent to where Saroj photographed the Berberis. *In conclusion, we can be pretty confident it is not B.griffithiana but not sure it comes within B.aristata. Looking forward to a critical revision of this genus. In what remains my lifetime? We shall see.* On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:23:23 PM UTC+1, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote: > Dear Members, > > Sharing some pictures for ID shot at the Chandragiri Hill Kathmandu on 19 > September 2016 at 8200 ft. > > Could it be > > *Berberis griffithiana *var.* pallida* (J. D. Hooker & Thomson) D. F. > Chamberlain & C. M. Hu > syn: > *Berberis bhutanensis* Ahrendt (synonym) > The plant is tall about 15 ft in height or more. > > Thank you. > -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.