ID still pending ! Thank you.
Saroj Kasaju On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Saroj Kasaju <[email protected]> wrote: > ID validation pending ! > > Thank you. > > Saroj Kasaju > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks, Chadwell ji. >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: C CHADWELL >> Date: 21 September 2016 at 23:27 >> Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID >> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >> >> >> *Clearly an Epilobium but another difficult genus. There are a number of >> similar-looking, small-flowered* >> *willowherbs found in Ladakh of which I understand E.royleanum to be the >> commonest. However, things* >> *are not simple. Excuse the lengthy comments which follow.* >> >> The two most distinctive 'Epilobiums' found in Ladakh are now within the >> genus *Chamerion* (at one time spelt *Chamaernerion)*: >> >> *Chamerion angustifolium *known in the UK as 'Rosebay Willow Herb' or >> 'Fireweed' - known in N.America as 'Dwarf Fireweed' or >> 'River Beauty Willowherb' is gregarious by alpine watercourses. In 'The >> New of the British Isles' Stace keys Chamerion from Epilobium >> on the basis of all the leaves being alternate, flowers held >> horizontally, slightly zygomorphic, whereas in Epilobium at least the >> lowest >> leaves are opposite, flowers +/- erect when open, actinomorphic. There >> are other differences. >> >> Stace also observes for the genus *Epilobium* (in the UK), "*Plants vary >> greatly in stature, leaf-size and degree of branching and* >> *of pubescence but the type of hairs and certain aspects of leaf-shape >> are relatively constant. Seed coat ornamentation * >> *is highly diagnostic, as is the presence of a terminal appendage, but a >> high magnification (x> 20) is required".* >> >> Unless seeds are present (most Epilobiums are photographed when in >> flower) this characteristic cannot be used to distinguish >> between closely related species and even if one examined the plants with >> a good hands lens, the magnification may not be sufficient >> to check the detail. This means in some cases pressed specimens which >> can be examined under a higher magnification binocular >> microscope may well be required to be certain, identification-wise. >> >> Stace also observes (for UK Epilobiums) that hybrids occur commonly where >> 2 or more species occur together, especially >> in quantity for several years in disturbed ground..... >> >> *So one can see this is rather complicated! *The images shared do not >> show much detail (the flowers are only in bud, not open). >> Sometimes insufficient detail is visible from even the best, perfectly in >> focus close-ups - which is why some plant taxonomists specialising in >> particular genera or families require quality pressed specimen to provide a >> reliable identifications. >> >> *Anyhow, what are the possibilities as to the species of Epilobium in >> Ladakh? Stewart ('An Annotated Catalogue of the Vascular Plants of >> Pakistan & Kashmir' 1972) lists 6 Epilobiums from Ladakh, whereas the most >> up-to-date checklist for Ladakh by Klimes & Dickore lists 12.... **'Flowers >> of the Himalaya' describe 7 (now 5) of c. 23 spp. but probably more are >> recognised from the Himalaya nowadays.* >> >> Klimes (a Czech Republic botanist who undertook excellent field work in >> Ladakh but sadly went missing and has not been found) >> lists 5 species in what he described as 'lower' Ladakh (meaning the >> places he explored that were not at high altitude). * Of these,* >> *I understand E.royleanum to be the most widespread* with specimens >> found in eroded stream banks, emerged bottoms, springs & >> irrigation channels. Stewart recorded it as very common, chiefly in the >> temperate zone of N.Pakistan and Kashmir with a 19th >> Century record in Nubra. >> >> The images posted do look close to the 2 small photos of *E.royleanum* >> in 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated' (Yoshida, 2005) but this book >> also has photos of *E.tibetanum* - not that I could distinguish between >> the two on the basis of the photos. >> >> I do have a copy of the revision of ONAGRACEAE, the family to which >> Epilobium belongs, for 'Flora of Pakistan' (which I cannot locate at >> present but will check latter). But not sure if it will help much or is >> fully up-to-date. There is the e-flora for Pakistan but this does not >> contain all the detail within the printed versions. RELYING UPON KEYS ONLY >> TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SPECIES DOES NOT ALWAYS BRING A RELIABLE >> IDENTIFICATION. >> >> *This is all I can do for the present, perhaps there is someone with >> specialist knowledge of Epilobium who can say with confidence which species >> the images are of? **I cannot at this point - sometimes it is just not >> possible to tell similar species apart on the basis of* >> *photos which do not show sufficient detail - or the genus needs further >> study.* >> >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> http://www.shpa.org.uk/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >> *To:* efloraofindia <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Saroj Kasaju <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016, 1:45 >> *Subject:* Fwd: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID >> >> Thanks, Saroj ji >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Saroj Kasaju" <[email protected]> >> Date: 18 Sep 2016 22:20 >> Subject: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID >> To: "efloraofindia" <[email protected]>, "J.M. Garg" < >> [email protected]> >> Cc: >> >> Dear Members, >> >> Sharing some pictures for ID shot at Nubra Valley on 22 August 2014. >> >> My guess is some Epilobium sp. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Saroj Kasaju >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> >> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). >> >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
