Dear friends, ... here is a excerpt of response from Miguel Serrano Pérez (Departamento de Botânica, Faculdade de Farmácia)
................................ ... Regarding the identifications, I could disagree a little in some pictures of P. lambertiana. I would say that these pictures belong to Adelocaryum colestinum (=P.coelestina), mainly for the glochidiate nutlet. For instance: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinesh_valke/2977893065/ ... ............................... Dear Aparna ji, just as you hunch, this plant turns out to be *Paracaryopsis coelestina* ... the current and accepted name is *Adelocaryum colestinum*. Regards. Regards. On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: > Many many thanks for providing clarity, Aparna ji. > From your review, for sure, the ID is not *P. lambertianum* or *P. > malabaricum* > > The attached photos is all that are available for the ID query ... BUT the > key elements are missing, thus it may not be possible to know the ID to the > species level. > The fruit in the photo appears fairly clear, however not sure whether clear > enough for knowing it to be *Paracaryopsis* OR *Cynoglossum* OR another > grenus. > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Aparna Watve <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Dear All, >> I took time to answer this, because in the past I have indicated that >> the identification of the genus Paracaryopsis should not be done >> without fruit characters together with flowers and good literature >> should be checked. (thrice if I remember correctly) >> Any way, I troubled Dr. Swapna, to write me the key and description >> from Cooke's Bombay Presidency flora, which acc to me is the most >> complete. >> OK So the key to Paracaryopsis (Paracaryum in old literature including >> Cooke)species is : >> >> 1. Nutlets glochidiate >> 2. Stem red, flwrs pale blue with a darker centre ---- P. coelestinum >> 2. Stem green, flowers dark blue uniform in colour without a dark >> centre ...... P. malabaricum >> >> 1. Nutlets NOT glochidiate ---------- P. lambertianum ( it was >> separated at times as genus Mattiastrum, but not by recent ideas) >> >> Description of fruit of P. lambertianum: Nutlets usually 2, (2 others >> suppressed) reaching 1/2 by 7/16 in, broadly ovate, flattened, "not >> glochidiate on the margins or faces. margin entire, flat, extending in >> the same plane" as the face or very slightly curved upwards. >> >> >> As you can see from the key, the plant in picture is certainly not >> Paracaryopsis lambertiana, as the glochidiate margin of fruit is so >> nicely seen. >> P. lambertianum is strikingly different in this character although >> matching flowers of Paracaryopsis coelestinum. The key in the Flora of >> Maharashtra dicot 2 is WRONG, but the description is correct, although >> very sketchy. I have seen this species and its non glochidiate winged >> fruits in field (Gaganbavda ghat, Kolhapur and Kori Fort, near >> Ambavane/Lonavala) and also checked in herbarium of BSI Pune circle. >> >> SO the plant in picture is not Paracaryopsis lambertiana. >> As for what it is, I cannot see the flowers clearly, a back view is >> not useful at all, and the size appears smaller than Paracaryopsis, >> but size does not matter so much. It can very well be a small poorly >> nourished plant of P. coelestinum as it cannot be P. lambertianum or >> P. malabaricum. But perhaps one should also characters of Cynoglossum, >> a genus fairly close in general look of Paracaryopsis although the >> fruits of Paracaryopsis are fairly different than Cynoglossum. >> If I visit Pune, I will try to get a picture from herbarium and >> circulate the fruit picture so that there is no misidentification in >> future. >> Web also has some new paper by R. Mill on this genus, but I have not >> been able to access it. >> >> Regards, >> Aparna >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Satish Phadke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Dinesh ji >> > It must be the later phase of the plant i.e. Between flowering and >> fruiting. >> > So the classic colours of the flowers are not visible here. Also the >> full >> > fledged fruits are probably yet to to get developed. Many plants in such >> > phases get us bolded out. >> > Thanks for the interesting thread. >> > Satish phadke >> > >> > On 2 March 2010 09:23, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear friends, more than convinced that this plant must be the Lambert's >> >> paracaryopsis, Paracaryopsis lambertiana ... locally known as हिरवी >> >> निसुर्डी hirvi nisurdi >> >> Thank you very much, dear Prashant. >> >> Regards. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> ... a very good lead, dear Prashant. >> >>> Was thinking about it, but the size beats me .. >> >>> This may indeed turn out to be P. lambertiana. >> >>> >> >>> Regards. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Prashant awale <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Dear Dinesh, >> >>>> Doesn't it looks like some Paracaryopsis sp. (Could as well be >> >>>> Paracaryopsis lambertiana). Just a wild guess.. >> >>>> best wishes >> >>>> Prashant >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >> > >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dear friends, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Inadvertently posted the query to group's moderators. >> >>>>> Sorry for the mess. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Here is Gurcharan ji's response: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I tried it hard to fix, the outside rim with seems to be unique. To >> me >> >>>>> it does not match with: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://www.plantphoto.cn/gallery/photo/2009/6/128888651395401250a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.plantphoto.cn/tu.aspx%3Fid%3D242808&usg=__9HokoemLXI3AtK5YyS4gcYdE8ZA=&h=525&w=700&sz=86&hl=en&start=7&sig2=uJexvTgZuRz5d2Jyy9w9hQ&itbs=1&tbnid=bvh8jXuIthze4M:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThyrocarpus%2Bglochidiatus%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=Pn-LS4vOJoewrAeGi4GPCg >> >>>>> x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Many thanks Gurcharan ji for giving a good lead. >> >>>>> Expecting more comment(s) ... hoping to get the ID. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regards. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> >>>>> Date: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:19 PM >> >>>>> Subject: ¿ Thyrocarpus glochidiatus ? >> >>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dear friends, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Had sent this query in a personal mail to Isaac Kehimkar ji, who >> >>>>> forwarded it to then IndianTreePix. >> >>>>> ... thus this ID request is incidently my first query !!! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Garg ji had resurfaced it once ... did not get any response, >> possibly >> >>>>> for want of details. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Two of my flickr friends - Tony suggested it to be a member of >> >>>>> Boraginaceae, few months back ... and recently, Tanay Bose says it >> must be >> >>>>> Thyrocarpus glochidiatus. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Earnest request for comment(s). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Date/Time : October 25, 2008 at 11.43am >> >>>>> Location Place : Karnala Bird Sanctuary ... Altitude : 104 m ± 3 m >> >>>>> ... GPS : 18°53'27.01"N, 73° 7'3.50"E ± few seconds. >> >>>>> Habitat : Wild ... Type : mixed deciduous forest, under tree-cover >> >>>>> Plant Habit : Herb ... Height : about 50 -70 cm ... Length : - NO - >> >>>>> Leaves Type : do not know ... Shape : do not know ... Size : do not >> >>>>> know >> >>>>> Inflorescence Type : terminal racemous ... Size : about 25 - 30 cm >> >>>>> Flowers Size : about 3 mm ... Colour : do not know ... Calyx : as in >> >>>>> photo ... Bracts : do not know >> >>>>> Fruits Type : as in photo ... Shape : as in photo ... Size : about 3 >> mm >> >>>>> ... Seeds : do not know >> >>>>> Other Info : >> >>>>> Fragrance : do not know ... Pollinator : do not know ... Uses : do >> >>>>> not know >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regards. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> . >> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >> . >> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >> "efloraofindia" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >> . >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "efloraofindia" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Aparna Watve >> Dr. Aparna Watve >> Asha Appt, Shanti Nagar, Ekata Colony >> Nr. BSNL tower, Akbar Ward, >> Seoni.480661 >> tel: 07692-228115 >> mobile: (0)9755667710 and 9822597288 still works >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.
