Forwarding again for ID Distributed as Phyllanthus species- Virat nagar Forest Jaipur <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/p/phyllanthaceae/phyllanthus/phyllanthus-species--keys/virat-nagar-forest-jaipur> Group discussion at ID-DKB178 (google.com) <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/xWImByfix5E> On Sunday, August 30, 2009 at 5:03:21 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh wrote:
> Tabish ji > I think I have not been able to explain things clearly. I never wrote that > P. niruri grows in India. P. ninuri was wrongly identified in Flora of > British India, and Indian specimens were subsequently identified as P. > fraternus (Maheshwari, Flora of Delhi; Eflora of Pakistan; Useful plants > of > India, etc) and hence the synonym as P. niruri Hook.f. (non Linn.). It > occurs in India and Pakistan- now naturalised elsewhere (also see > BalaKrishnan-family Euphorbiaceae in India; Wealth of India). So no > confusion about P. fraternus and P. niruri. > Now coming to P. amarus is an american species now naturalised in > Tropical Old World, including India, China and Japan. The specimens > were/are > sometimes confused with P. niruri/P. fraternus/P. urinaria but is easily > distinguished by smaller leaves, lateral veins usually 3 pairs, male and > female flowers in same axil, perianth (sepals) 5 in number and disc > 5-lobed. > It has two subspecies in China ssp. amarus (annual plants, erect) and ssp. > sanyaensis (biennial or perennial, trailing or prostrate. Both P. > fraternus > and P. urinaria have 6 perianth, leaves of former being glabrous, fruit > glabrous, that of latter hispidulus along margin and fruit tuberculate. > Both P. fraternus and P. amarus are illustrated in Eflora of Pakistan. > > > I think there should be no confusion between P fraternus and P. amarus. > Both occur in India. > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College > University of Delhi, Delhi > India > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tabish" <[email protected]> > To: "indiantreepix" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:07 PM > Subject: [indiantreepix:17202] Re: ID-DKB178 > > > > According to Kew World Checklist ( http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do ) > Phyllanthus amarus has the following synonyms: > Phyllanthus niruri var. amarus > Phyllanthus niruri var. scabrellus > Phyllanthus niruri var. baronianus > among others. Is supposed to be distributed (after introduction) in > parts of India. > > Phyllanthus niruri's distribution in the Kew World Checklist does not > mention India. > > Best wishes > - Tabish > > On Aug 30, 8:52 am, "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear Devendra ji > > I think your plant is still unidentified. It has two clear features of > P. > > amarus: male and female fls in same axils (most middle ones), and the > > leaves are much larger and broader, and one more things which I notice, > > your plant seems to be distinctly pubescent, and of diiferent colour > (than > > my plant of P. fraternus, or plant of Dinesh ji). I think we will > explore > > further before confirmation. It could be P. rotundifolius (if cataphylls > > are present- note small appendages in my photograph showing upper view > of > > P. fraternus) or else Maderaspatensis (if cataphylls are absent). To me > > Dinesh ji plant fits better with P. maderaspatensis, but I am not > certain > > at present. Before we resolve let us look at the following things, if > you > > can find fresh plants. (There is, however, one caution. The plants > > flowering these days (at least in P. fraternus) have smaller leaves than > > ones I photographed in May-June): > > > > 1. whether plant is herbaceous or woody > > 2. presence or absence of pubescence > > 3. colour of leaves (yours are light green, mine and Dinesh ji's dark > > green) > > 4. Chape of leaves (that can be judged from photgraph) > > 5. Size of leaves > > 6. Whether middle portion has only female flowers, or mixed male and > > female > > 7. Number of perianth (some call them sepals), 6 in two whorls or 5 in > one > > whorl > > 8. Tip of perianth pointed or rounded > > 9. Size of perianth > > 10. Size, shape and colour of fruits > > 11. Number of lobes of disc > > 12. Length of pedicel of female flower and fruit > > > > For me even Dinesh ji's plant may turn out to be different. It has much > > more rigid leaves, even the branches appear rigid, leaves dark green. We > > may have to look at cataphylls to decide finally. > > > > Let us hope something interesting comes out > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > Associate Professor > > SGTB Khalsa College > > University of Delhi, Delhi > > Indiahttp://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Devendra Bhardwaj > > To: Gurcharan Singh ; Dinesh Valke > > Cc: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178 > > > > Thanks to Gurcharan ji &Dinesh ji for correct ID. > > Regd > > Devendra > > > > --- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178 > > To: "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]> > > Cc: [email protected], "Devendra Bhardwaj" > > <[email protected]> > > Date: Saturday, 29 August, 2009, 10:41 PM > > > > Gurcharan ji ... thank you very much for pointing info of the species. > > So is it correct that Devendra ji's plant is P. fraternus ? > > > > Regards. > > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Dear Dinesh ji > > > > Phyllanthus fraternus (with P. niruri Hook.f. non Linn. as syn) and P. > > amarus are both described in Eflora of Pakistan. Latter is described in > > Eflora of China, who mention that it was formerly misidentified as P. > > niruri. Presence of 5 perianth (as against 6 in P. fraternus), each leaf > > axil (most middle) with one male and one female flower (female flowers > > single in leaf axils in P. fraternus), disc 5 lobed (as against 6-10 > > lobed) are quite characteristic of P. amarus. Leaves are described as > 3-8 > > x 2-4.5 mm in Eflora of Pakistan, 3-6 x 1.5-3 mm in Flora of China. Your > > plant with larger leaves could be different species. > > P. fraternus grows around my house and I have observed it constantly. > > > > Let us explore further > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > Associate Professor > > SGTB Khalsa College > > University of Delhi, Delhi > > India > > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dinesh Valke > > To: Gurcharan Singh > > Cc: [email protected] ; Devendra Bhardwaj > > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:46 PM > > Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178 > > > > Gurcharan ji, the leaves in the photo attached by me are about 12 - 15 > mm > > long, and about 5 - 8 mm wide ... the fruits seen are about 2 - 3 mm. > > I am believing it to be P. amarus, and also P. niruri as its synonym. > > > > However, I am keen to know whether I am mistaking, especially because > > there is too much mix up of P. amarus, P. niruri, and P. fraternus on > the > > internet ...though whatever is discussed seemingly contradict. > > > > Any clarity for differentiating these three species will greatly help in > > thrashing confusion and mistakes on the internet. > > > > Regards. > > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Dear Dinesh ji and Devendra ji > > > > I thought the plant photographed by Devendra ji appeared to be shrubby, > > and fruits larger and black- hence my guess about reticulatus. > > > > P. niruri Linn, P. amarus and P. fraternus are three distinct species, > but > > Indian specimens don't belong to P. niruri rather P. fraternus. P. > niruri > > thus is not synonym of P. amarus (not P. niruri Linn or P. niruri > > Hook.f.). P. fraternus has larger leaves and 6 perianth, male and female > > fls in different axils (male in lower axils, female in our axils), and > > 6-10 lobed disc. P. amarus has smaller leaves (yours are larger than > mine > > P. fraternus hence the doubt), perianth 5 and 5-lobed disc. > > > > Gurcharan Singh > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > Associate Professor > > SGTB Khalsa College > > University of Delhi, Delhi > > India > > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dinesh Valke > > To: [email protected] ; Gurcharan Singh > > Cc: Devendra Bhardwaj > > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178 > > > > ... Phyllanthus amarus > > > > commonly known as: black catnip, carry me seed, child pick-a-back, gale > of > > wind, gulf leaf flower, hurricane weed, shatterstone, stone breaker • > > Bengali: bhui amla • Hindi: bhui aonla, jar amla, jangli amli • Kannada: > > kirunelli, nelanelli • Marathi: भुईआवळी bhuiavali • Sanskrit: bahupatra, > > भूम्यामलकी bhumyaamalaki, jar amla, thamalaki • Tamil: கீழாநெல்லி > > keelanelli, கீழ்காய்நெல்லி kizkaynelli • Telugu: నేల ఉసిరి nela usiri > > > > Regards. > > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Devender ji, I think Phyllanthus reticulatus > > > > Gurcharan Singh > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > > Associate Professor > > SGTB Khalsa College > > University of Delhi, Delhi > > India > > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Devendra Bhardwaj > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:08 AM > > Subject: [indiantreepix:17127] ID-DKB178 > > > > Hello, > > > > Plant from Virat nagar Forest Jaipur > > > > For ID(ID-DKB178) > > > > It is Phyllanthus? > > > > Photo Taken on-26.8.2009 > > > > Regd > > > > Devendra > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out > > Yahoo! Buzz > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. > > Click here. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/e38d37e3-736e-41dc-b0fc-3187a6f6f41an%40googlegroups.com.
