Tabish ji Thanks for bringing into focus a re-look at the specimens. I observe the follwing: Critical analysis of specimens and comparison I feel your specimens and those of Prashant belong to different species.
Your plant has flowers with pinkish tinge, shorter and somewhat narrowed lip with curved sometimes coiled spur. This fits well with I. amphorata, now correctly known as I. bicolor Royle by all recent treatments including Flora of India, Flowering plants of Nepal and GRIN Prashant ji's plant is closer to I. devendrae but not perhaps same, because that species seems to be endemic to Uttarakhand as concluded by the authors. Prashant ji's plant has more of yellowish tinge, longer lip and curled but but coiled spur. It characteristically has flower bud with two horns (bicurnute, also seen in I. devendrae, and I. cornuta complex) one formed by the pointed tip of the keel of upper petal and second by the spur. This can be clearly seen in the photographs which I had cropped and enlarged. Buds also show pointed tips of lateral sepals. All this for me identifies Prashant ji's specimens with I. bicornuta (less likely as it is considered restricted to Nepal) or its recent segregates I. pradhanii, I. arunensis or I. garwalhensis. Perhaps this article will help: - Impatiens bicornuta and Its Allies: Studies in Balsaminaceae: VII - C. Grey-Wilson - Kew Bulletin<http://www.jstor.org/action/showPublication?journalCode=kewbulletin> Vol. 44, No. 1 (1989), pp. 61-66 (article consists of 6 pages) - Published by: Springer<http://www.jstor.org/action/showPublisher?publisherCode=springer> on behalf of Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew<http://www.jstor.org/action/showPublisher?publisherCode=kew> - Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4114645 *Tanay and Pankaj ji may perhaps help* * * -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>wrote: > I agree with Tabish sir on this issue, while looking at the descriptions > and our long discussion on the particular taxa in question, we have a great > doubt on our own identification. One thing for sure is, we may be missing > some key characters which are not visible in the pics either on the reprint > provided by Tanay or in the pic provided by Prashant sir. > To proceed further, we should start will checking if at all both species > are same. If they are not then our plant should be I. amphorata with I. > devendrae as superfluous name. If they are not same then lets say both > species are distinct. > Pankaj > > > > On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: > >> After the initial enthusiasm of having found the identity of Prashant's >> and mine Impatiens species, I had doubts since what we found was so >> abundant. I came across this picture of Impatiens amphorata >> >> http://www.mrimpatiens.com/scripts/gallery.php?gallery=species&image=Impatiens%20amphorata.jpg >> The description of I. amphorata here >> >> http://books.google.com/books?id=QJL_1neNun8C&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=Impatiens+amphorata&source=bl&ots=kTbeoZuMlJ&sig=Le8cC3_IjX1igojTjMTMUzc4IAw&hl=en&ei=ZzW5TKe5GI2EvAOu-Z20DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Impatiens%20amphorata&f=false >> and in Flora of British India, Vol 1, page 475 >> leave me no doubt that our species is Impatiens amphorata, which is >> supposed to be common in Western Himalayas, at that altitude. The >> description matches to the extent of the cruved spur ending in a swollen >> lobule. >> Moreover, it leaves me wondering if I. devendrae, introduced in the >> paper pointed out by Tanay, is any different from Impatiens amphorata? >> The current naming and synonymy of I. amphorata is also not clear to me >> (GRIN treats is as synonym of I. bicolor), but surely it looks like a >> species described earlier. >> I would be happy to have comments from experts, since I am a non-expert >> in this field. >> - Tabish >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear Prashant sir and Tabish sir, >>> This is confirmed. But the good news it this is new record for Himachal >>> and for Dehradun, hence it can be published :)). Earlier records have been >>> exclusively from NDBR. >>> >>> Regards >>> Pankaj >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Prashant awale <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Tabish ji, Pankaj ji, Gurcharan Singh ji, Tanay ji and all my >>>> friends, >>>> I have no words to express my joy. Initially i thought identifying this >>>> will be easy but then i realised its not the case. Great efforts from all >>>> our experts. Thanks Tanay ji for bringing out the paper. >>>> Nice to see Pankaj ji and Tabish ji sharing the fun with group (I. >>>> piggycornuta sounds good.. [?]) >>>> >>>> I am sure all those who were reading this thread will never ever forget >>>> I. devendrae . >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> Prashant >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:08 AM, Tabish <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes Gurcharan ji, >>>>> It was a nice learning experience. From a completely confused state >>>>> to seeing two sets of specimens as the same species to discovering the >>>>> hidden tail, to finally I. devendrae. Most usefully burnt midnight >>>>> oil! >>>>> - Tabish >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 14, 2:30 am, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > That is really nice. >>>>> > That day it was great adventure with Ranunculus hirtellus, today it >>>>> was >>>>> > Impatiens devedrae. >>>>> > We learn a lot from these interactions, please it it up. >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>> > >>>>> > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>> [email protected]>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > It was great fun. As the tail was looking like that of a pig so we >>>>> > > were looking for latin of pigtailed :)) so the name we came out >>>>> was, >>>>> > > PIGGYCORNU ..... or SUSCORNU as Sus scrofa is Wild Pig. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Pankaj >>>>> > >>>>> > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> > > wrote: >>>>> > > > Let us know the name!! >>>>> > >>>>> > > > -- >>>>> > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > > > Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> > > >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>> > >>>>> > > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> > > > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> Just for information of all. Tabish sir and I had been having >>>>> chatting >>>>> > > >> on this species since past one hour and he even had some name in >>>>> his >>>>> > > >> mind thinking of this as a new species..... >>>>> > > >> Hats off to Tabish sir .... >>>>> > > >> pANKAJ >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> > > >> wrote: >>>>> > > >> > Prashant Pusalkar is a friend of mine who did his PhD under >>>>> him. He is >>>>> > > >> > a nice guy, good taxonomist and now Botanical Assistant at BSI >>>>> > > >> > Dehradun. >>>>> > > >> > Pankaj >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> > wrote: >>>>> > > >> >> Etymology: The species is named as a token of respect >>>>> > > >> >> to the teacher of the senior author and the Additional >>>>> > > >> >> Director of the Botanical Survey of India, Dr. Devendra >>>>> > > >> >> K. Singh. >>>>> > > >> >> Yes his name is Dr. Devendra Kumar Singh. Joint Director of >>>>> BSI at >>>>> > > >> >> Kolkata these days. >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >> Pankaj >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:39 AM, tanay bose < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >> wrote: >>>>> > > >> >>> You are most welcome Tabish Ji >>>>> > > >> >>> Tanay >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Tabish <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> Yes Gurcharan ji, Impatiens devendrae Pusalkar seems to be >>>>> the >>>>> > > >> >>>> answer. By the way, does "D" in D.K. Singh stand for >>>>> Devendra? If >>>>> > > so, >>>>> > > >> >>>> I will be a little amused. :-) >>>>> > > >> >>>> Thanks Tanay, for bringing the paper to attention. >>>>> > > >> >>>> - Tabish >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> On Oct 14, 2:01 am, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Thanks Tanay >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Impatiens devendrae Pusalkar seems to be the answer >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > > >> >>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 1:40 PM, tanay bose < >>>>> > > [email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > This paper has something you are looking for in this ID >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > Tanay >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:08 AM, tanay bose >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > <[email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Kindly excuse me due to file size the mail is not >>>>> getting >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> delivered >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> kindly >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> see the a paper from the link below >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://www.press.ntu.edu.tw/ejournal/files/taiwan%5C5501_201003%5C3.pdf >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Tanay >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:06 AM, tanay bose >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:04 AM, tanay bose >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> I ma attaching a paper hope this will help with your >>>>> SPUR >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> problem!!! >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> The surprise can be inside the paper. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> Tanay >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Tabish < >>>>> > > [email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> One more picture from Dhanaulti to convey my >>>>> feeling that >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> this is >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> the >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> same as Prashant's plant. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> - Tabish >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Pankaj Kumar >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Oh, thats very strange. Why cant we call the >>>>> whole thing >>>>> > > as >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > broad >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> spur >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > with small tip ? I think now I will have to >>>>> recheck as >>>>> > > per >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Dr. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Gurcharan's suggestion!! >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > By the way Tabish sir, your plant has crenulate >>>>> margin >>>>> > > but >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > I >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > think >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Prashant sir's pic has serrate or serrulate >>>>> margin? >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > They should be different. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Pankaj >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Tabish >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > <[email protected]> >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> >> We also found this Balsam in Dhanaulti. It does >>>>> have a >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> >> small >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> >> curled >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> >> spur. I could not find this one in Polunin & >>>>> Stainton. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> >> - Tabish >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > *********************************************** >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA >>>>> DEFICIENT >>>>> > > !!" >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Research Associate >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Wildlife Institute of India >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Post Box # 18 >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> > Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> -- >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> Tabish Qureshi Phone: >>>>> 011-26981753, >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> 32959320(res) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> Department of Physics Email: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> Jamia Millia Islamia Webpage: >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>>http://tabish.freeshell.org >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>> New Delhi - 110025. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>>>http://www.jamia-physics.net >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> *Tanay Bose* >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> Department of Botany. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> University of British Columbia . >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>>> [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> *Tanay Bose* >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> Department of Botany. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> University of British Columbia . >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >>> [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> *Tanay Bose* >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Department of Botany. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> University of British Columbia . >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > >> [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > -- >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > *Tanay Bose* >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > Department of Botany. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > University of British Columbia . >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>> > > >> >>>> > > [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >>> -- >>>>> > > >> >>> Tanay Bose >>>>> > > >> >>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>> > > >> >>> Department of Botany. >>>>> > > >> >>> University of British Columbia . >>>>> > > >> >>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>> > > >> >>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>> > > >> >>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>> > > >> >>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>> > > >> >>> [email protected] >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >> -- >>>>> > > >> >> *********************************************** >>>>> > > >> >> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> >> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>> > > >> >> Research Associate >>>>> > > >> >> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>> > > >> >> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>> > > >> >> Wildlife Institute of India >>>>> > > >> >> Post Box # 18 >>>>> > > >> >> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> > -- >>>>> > > >> > *********************************************** >>>>> > > >> > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>> > > >> > Research Associate >>>>> > > >> > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>> > > >> > Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>> > > >> > Wildlife Institute of India >>>>> > > >> > Post Box # 18 >>>>> > > >> > Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>> > >>>>> > > >> -- >>>>> > > >> *********************************************** >>>>> > > >> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES >>>>> > >>>>> > ... >>>>> > >>>>> > read more ยป >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *********************************************** >>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>> >>> >>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>> Research Associate >>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>> Wildlife Institute of India >>> Post Box # 18 >>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Tabish Qureshi Phone: 011-26981753, 32959320(res) >> Department of Physics Email: [email protected] >> >> Jamia Millia Islamia Webpage: http://tabish.freeshell.org >> New Delhi - 110025. >> http://www.jamia-physics.net >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > -- > *********************************************** > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" > > > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) > Research Associate > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project > Department of Habitat Ecology > Wildlife Institute of India > Post Box # 18 > Dehradun - 248001, India >
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